Iran & Saudi Arabia Moving Closer Together

#76
#76
BreatheUT said:
China is an adversary. If China's growth was because of something they were directly responsible for then ok, you accept that. We allowed China to become favored nation status and helped them become more than a wheat and rice producer. Our thirst for cheap goods at the expense of slave later has backfired. They have since grown their weak military to serve as a world threat. You don't help someone take your place.
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What makes them an adversary if we helped them build their economy and simultaneously destroy our own?

BreatheUT said:
You even saw during covid their refusal to have a transparent investigation into the origins. How do you solve the root cause and thus prevent it in the future if the origins are being hidden? I agree the US might have some culpability so I'm not sure how a lawsuit plays out unless you can prove they intentionally released it to the world.
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Are you gaslighting right now or do you just have blinders on? The US didn't engage in an honest investigation, either. Any alternative narrative that went against the wet market narrative was called racist.
 
#78
#78
Rasputin_Vol said:
What makes them an adversary if we helped them build their economy and simultaneously destroy our own?


Are you gaslighting right now or do you just have blinders on? The US didn't engage in an honest investigation, either. Any alternative narrative that went against the wet market narrative was called racist.
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What makes them an adversary? Are you playing games now? That's the way the world is when you have a different views on government and the way society should be run. They want to expand their rule beyond their borders. The world is a fixed pie. They have a goal to be #1 in the world thus taking our influence away.

Yes, I know many in the US were part of the covid cover up as well.
 
#79
#79
BreatheUT said:
What makes them an adversary? Are you playing games now? That's the way the world is when you have a different views on government and the way society should be run. They want to expand their rule beyond their borders. The world is a fixed pie. They have a goal to be #1 in the world thus taking our influence away.

Yes, I know many in the US were part of the covid cover up as well.
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So basically, it is because it has always been like that. Not any possibility that there might be a paradigm change.

That is a scarcity mindset that plagues the US and before us the British and others vs an abundance mindset. There is plenty here for all of us if we simply cooperate. Looks like China, Russia and India are moving in a direction where at least Asia, the ME, Africa and Latic America can work together. Why can't we seem to want to do the same instead of being the bully/aggressor?

Mutually beneficial trade, diplomacy and non-interventionalist military policy. It really isn't that hard folks.
 
#80
#80
Rasputin_Vol said:
Are you naive enough to think the nuclear question wasn't brought up in these negotiations?

I already answered this response. I'm sure it was.


Well of course China gets something out of this. The Chinese are going around using diplomacy to bring enemies together, end conflicts and cutting economic deals that serves their interests. Meanwhile, the US looks to divide nations, start new wars and destroys economic progress to serve our interests.


Now which alternative would look more attractive to you?

Rhetorical question, I assume? I've stated before I'm well aware of our past transgressions. We're no choir boys, but don't think China and Russia are the gold standard for international partners and world peace. They're setting their hooks too and probably have their guys that could also co-author "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man".
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#81
#81
Rasputin_Vol said:
So basically, it is because it has always been like that. Not any possibility that there might be a paradigm change.

That is a scarcity mindset that plagues the US and before us the British and others vs an abundance mindset. There is plenty here for all of us if we simply cooperate. Looks like China, Russia and India are moving in a direction where at least Asia, the ME, Africa and Latic America can work together. Why can't we seem to want to do the same instead of being the bully/aggressor?

Mutually beneficial trade, diplomacy and non-interventionalist military policy. It really isn't that hard folks.
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Look at how PRC is operating in the South China Sea. Taking other countries' territory, militarizing it, and runnning countries out of their own EEZ's isn't an abundance approach. It benefits only PRC.
 
#82
#82
EasternVol said:
Look at how PRC is operating in the South China Sea. Taking other countries' territory, militarizing it, and runnning countries out of their own EEZ's isn't an abundance approach. It benefits only PRC.
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Atolls and sandbars... we both know why they are doing this. It is to guard against any American threats to the shipping lanes.

Also, lets not pretend that these countries don't have border disputes in the region amongst themselves, not only with China.
 
#83
#83
Rasputin_Vol said:
Atolls and sandbars... we both know why they are doing this. It is to guard against any American threats to the shipping lanes.

Also, lets not pretend that these countries don't have border disputes in the region amongst themselves, not only with China.
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It is to guard again threats to their trade, true. It's also to control them. Japan, the US, and many other countries rely on those same sea lanes. And it's to keep the rightful owners out, as with Scarborough, which per PCA ruling is Philippine territory. There's also the issue of PRC pushing rightful owners out of their EEZ's and stealing resources.
There are disputes among other counting the SCS but we don't see invasions and militarization by them.
 
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#84
#84
EasternVol said:
It is to guard again threats to their trade, true. It's also to control them. Japan, the US, and many other countries rely on those same sea lanes. And it's to keep the rightful owners out, as with Scarborough, which per PCA ruling is Philippine territory. There's also the issue of PRC pushing rightful owners out of their EEZ's and stealing resources.
There are disputes among other counting the SCS but we don't see invasions and militarization by them.
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China is the world's leading exporter and importer. They have no desire to nor have a history of blocking trade routes. It is all about defending against US aggression.
 
#85
#85
Rasputin_Vol said:
China is the world's leading exporter and importer. They have no desire to nor have a history of blocking trade routes. It is all about defending against US aggression.
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The aggressor in that area is PRC. Does wanting to deflect US hegemony justify PRC's aggression against their neighbors?
 
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#89
#89
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#90
#90
#91
#91
EasternVol said:
That's still territory as you know. PRC's stealing fisheries, oil and gas, future mineral mining, etc.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/watch/insight-2023-2024/us-military-expansion-philippines-3400216
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asi...-anwar-protect-rights-petronas-energy-3405311
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Rasputin_Vol said:
Also, lets not pretend that these countries don't have border disputes in the region amongst themselves, not only with China.
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China claims sovereignty over almost the entire South China Sea, through which about US$3 trillion worth of ship-borne trade passes annually. Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam have some overlapping claims.
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Rasputin_Vol said:
China is the world's leading exporter and importer. They have no desire to nor have a history of blocking trade routes. It is all about defending against US aggression.
Click to expand...

China claims sovereignty over almost the entire South China Sea, through which about US$3 trillion worth of ship-borne trade passes annually. Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam have some overlapping claims.
Click to expand...
 
#93
#93
#100
#100
Rasputin_Vol said:
So basically, it is because it has always been like that. Not any possibility that there might be a paradigm change.

That is a scarcity mindset that plagues the US and before us the British and others vs an abundance mindset. There is plenty here for all of us if we simply cooperate. Looks like China, Russia and India are moving in a direction where at least Asia, the ME, Africa and Latic America can work together. Why can't we seem to want to do the same instead of being the bully/aggressor?

Mutually beneficial trade, diplomacy and non-interventionalist military policy. It really isn't that hard folks.
Click to expand...
But Russia and China are actively looking to destabilize and create conflict right now, at this very minute. That is what they are doing. There is no paradigm shift, they simply want to doesn't supplant us. A country that exploits slave and child labor and you are cheering it on like things would be better if we were out of the way. GTFOH with that nonsense.
 
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