Iran

#1,226
#1,226
PKT_VOL said:
Sure, those proxy wars and low-key operations is where the Middle East leaders want the temperature to stay at.

Tribal monarchies and religious autocracies have been locked in a cold war for a long time. Israel has been a useful ally to the tribal monarchies (and vise versa) but they would very much prefer the cold war to stay cold.
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Agree but the real dirty secret is that the USA and UN basically said that all borders starting in 1950 are iron clad. That isn't history. Nations have expanded, detracted, and eaten each other throughout all of history. USA is PRIMARILY hated because we keep nations, like Russia, from just expanding when they feel like.

There is also an argument (legitimately) that certain nations are hamstrung by the lack of land/resources that they possess. I think this is common in Africa with smaller nations on a difficult geography. It keeps them from advancing. If they invaded and consolidated, perhaps a stronger state (political, militarily, and economical) could emerge.
 
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#1,227
#1,227
PKT_VOL said:
Sure, those proxy wars and low-key operations is where the Middle East leaders want the temperature to stay at.

Tribal monarchies and religious autocracies have been locked in a cold war for a long time. Israel has been a useful ally to the tribal monarchies (and vise versa) but they would very much prefer the cold war to stay cold.
Click to expand...

Double post
 
#1,229
#1,229
Vol737 said:
If Israel did what Israel COULD do, it would turn your hair white, your teeth curly and make the world gasp. And that’s probably without nukes. Iran wants no part of the full ire and focus of Israel. Hezbollah would s**t their pants at the prospect of being next. Not saying that’s where things need to go, because hopefully they don’t.
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Yessir.

Many folks have no idea how formidable they actually are. Absent nukes Israel is still absolutely badazz and will wreck all but a few countries on this rock we call home...they may have a relatively small numerical force but their airforce is excellent as well as their army....and what they lack in numbers they make up for by having the best tech and weapons on Earth. They are the only airforce on the globe that not only gets all of our brand new fighters, missiles etc right when our own USAF gets them (vs the last gen stuff or even 2 gens old we sell to other nations) they even develop and sometimes improve on certain aspects of our fighters (like F15s and F35s) and make their own operation and weapons suites, develop their own missiles and radars etc....Israel is dangerous in every sense of the word. Their pilots are top notch too and train with our pilots. Their records vs other countries MiGs are like ours are. They wreck people. Their army, tanks, artillery and small arms are all great as well and include a lot of our designs as well as hardware.

They have great gear like we do...but seem to get a lot more practice using all their weapons haha. Plus theres the whole " Gods chosen people...He will literally destroy you Himself if need be" aspect. Poor decision Iran.
 
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#1,231
#1,231
kiddiedoc said:
That's why I asked if Isreal agreed that Iran's incompetence was enough of an embarrassment. Of course it doesn't. They are tired of this crap. This could get very real, and I hope that we are able to leave the ME alone to figure this is out (and that China doesn't get frisky).
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Amen
 
#1,232
#1,232
Orangeslice13 said:
This stupidity has our name all over it. And it far exceeds Israel’s retaliatory shot on an embassy. We put this thing in motion and now it’s our problem to live with.

We shouldn’t be giving anyone aid. We sure as **** should not have given money to Iran.

Screwing up the world is kinda our thing. It’s a little disingenuous to pick a spot in the late stages and say “this is where we bow out of the **** storm we created “
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Yep.
 
#1,234
#1,234
marcusluvsvols said:
Edit: ND he wasn't talking about wing mounted Sparrow air to air missiles was he? It seemed like he was talking about another layer of SAMs...not old school short/medium range A2A missiles on fighters? Would they use sparrows instead of the sidewinders/AMRAAMs? Maybe the Sparrows are cheaper or more plentiful...or they figured on short range/maybe off boresight kills over Israel as opposed to trying to take em down over Jordan/Northern SA before they crossed the eastern border of Israel from greater range?
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Not sure I get the Sparrow reference. Sparrow is a semi active seeker I think unless they’ve upgraded it. The shooter has to still illuminate the target to some degree unless they’ve upgraded it. That was the massive upgrade with the AIM-120 AMRAAM it is fire and forget. Could they have been talking RIM-7 Sea Sparrow?

On those slow drones I’d guess the preferred weapon is the gun those pilots will never have a shooting galley set up like that again.
 
#1,239
#1,239
davethevol said:
Iran is apparently hinting that they will use nuclear weapons if they are attacked by Israel. Is this an empty threat or is everything about to enter a stage of no return?
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hog88 said:
Hmm, I thought that they were still x years away from having nuclear capabilities.
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Only thing I've found is this and it just mentions Iran possibly ramping up enrichment activity to pursue a nuclear weapon faster, but who knows?

 
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#1,245
#1,245
Orangeslice13 said:
This stupidity has our name all over it. And it far exceeds Israel’s retaliatory shot on an embassy. We put this thing in motion and now it’s our problem to live with.

We shouldn’t be giving anyone aid. We sure as **** should not have given money to Iran.

Screwing up the world is kinda our thing.
Click to expand...

The idea that the world would be a wonderful place sans US-lead world order is foolish.

Does the US make mistakes and do messed up stuff? Of course. Has the US-lead world order been a net positive for the world? Of course.

The Middle East would be a violent, ****ed up place with or without US involvement. Unfixable regions of the world is an important argument for the US divesting from leading the world. The problem comes from the fact that regional issues can negatively effect the rest of the world in a profound way due to nuclear weapons and having a globalized, interdepend economy.

Orangeslice13 said:
It’s a little disingenuous to pick a spot in the late stages and say “this is where we bow out of the **** storm we created “
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At some point you have to have red lines for activity which you do not tolerate. Keeping diplomatic immunity sacrosanct within international affairs seems like a worthy red line.
 
#1,246
#1,246
volbound1700 said:
Agree but the real dirty secret is that the USA and UN basically said that all borders starting in 1950 are iron clad. That isn't history. Nations have expanded, detracted, and eaten each other throughout all of history. USA is PRIMARILY hated because we keep nations, like Russia, from just expanding when they feel like.

There is also an argument (legitimately) that certain nations are hamstrung by the lack of land/resources that they possess. I think this is common in Africa with smaller nations on a difficult geography. It keeps them from advancing. If they invaded and consolidated, perhaps a stronger state (political, militarily, and economical) could emerge.
Click to expand...

To add to that, a lot of international lines were drawn during colonialism and grouped various tribes with each other that have been fighting each other for hundreds of years.

In fairness to the UN, if it operated as it should in good faith, a majority of the conflicts around the world could be minimized.
 
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#1,247
#1,247
marcusluvsvols said:
Yessir.

Many folks have no idea how formidable they actually are. Absent nukes Israel is still absolutely badazz and will wreck all but a few countries on this rock we call home...they may have a relatively small numerical force but their airforce is excellent as well as their army....and what they lack in numbers they make up for by having the best tech and weapons on Earth. They are the only airforce on the globe that not only gets all of our brand new fighters, missiles etc right when our own USAF gets them (vs the last gen stuff or even 2 gens old we sell to other nations) they even develop and sometimes improve on certain aspects of our fighters (like F15s and F35s) and make their own operation and weapons suites, develop their own missiles and radars etc....Israel is dangerous in every sense of the word. Their pilots are top notch too and train with our pilots. Their records vs other countries MiGs are like ours are. They wreck people. Their army, tanks, artillery and small arms are all great as well and include a lot of our designs as well as hardware.

They have great gear like we do...but seem to get a lot more practice using all their weapons haha. Plus theres the whole " Gods chosen people...He will literally destroy you Himself if need be" aspect. Poor decision Iran.
Click to expand...

They are only conventionally formidable due to our weapon systems. If that was to dry up, they it would be a very different story.

About the only thing they are uniquely, domestically good at is cybersecurity and intelligence.
 
#1,249
#1,249
PKT_VOL said:
They are only conventionally formidable due to our weapon systems. If that was to dry up, they it would be a very different story.

About the only thing they are uniquely, domestically good at is cybersecurity and intelligence.
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Israel has a robust domestic MIC.

Now, they get plenty from us too… But let’s not pretend they’d be reduced to Knives & Sharp Sticks if that were to dry up.
 
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