Is Barnes expanding rotation?

[chuckiepoo]

You also have to look at the style a team plays. Barnes' teams play a high intensity, max effort style that is very physically demanding. Lots of pressing, overplaying and help-side/support defense that takes a toll on a 6-7 player rotation. There is no question in my simple mind that this has been a factor at tournament time in years past...

That’s why it’s a decision. Develop intensity and conditioning or depth.Seems Barnes has walked the fine line.

 

[Namorto1]

We really pushed the ball up the court against Bama especially off turnovers and their tempo played into our hands. UT has the ability and luxury in that we can beat teams in a variety of ways and if we continue to quicken the pace, we can play more in the rotation (ie: Estrella and Dilione). For our long-term goals this year, I think it is important we get some quality minutes from both Estrella and Dilione every game. There is no sport in my opinion where the officials affect the game than college basketball. When Aidoo/Awaka and ZZ get into foul trouble, which will happen especially with officials who aren't used to seeing our defense in action, just based on reputation alone, we are unfairly penalized.

Dilione in particular has certainly struggled at times, but given the foot issue earlier in the season which likely is still lingering, if he can spell Zeigler maybe up to 10 minutes per game and not be a problem on the court defensively or with turnovers, he could be the one additional weapon we need in March off the bench. His offensive skills, ability to drive and score, given how much we can spread the court is another reason why this squad still has some upside in months ahead. Get 20 pts off the bench from Awaka/Estrella, Mashack, Gainey and Dilione consistently than we can play anybody on any court. In all our losses (except Purdue) we didn't get much off the bench.

 

[sami]

Would you be okay with a couple of more losses under that scenario and perhaps a worse seed in the tourney?

In exchange for a fresher, healthy group and potentially two kids that might be better prepared to contribute in a big spot? Without question.

 

[Kas232323]

In exchange for a fresher, healthy group and potentially two kids that might be better prepared to contribute in a big spot? Without question.

Even when the data suggests teams with tighter rotations have greater tourney success. Hmmm. Interesting position. Lots of ‘if’s’.

 

[ColinS]

Mashack at 22mpg in conference play is a solid number, playing Awaka is becoming an issue. He’s good and does some very good things, but his fouling issue is a two fold issue 1. It limits how many minutes he can play and 2. It also adds to our team fouls thus putting the opposition into the bonus quicker. He is currently fouling about twice the rate of any other rotational player, not good.

Awaka is a world class rebounder but doesn't do anything else on the basketball court that you need from a center well...... then again, he is a world class rebounder so you keep putting him in.

 

[Col_Cathcart]

Playing a tighter rotation builds chemistry among the players you’re most likely to need in big moments in march. Getting your 8th man more ready doesn’t do you any good if he isn’t playing in the games that matter.

 

[Col_Cathcart]

Gruden once asked Tom Moore why Peyton's backups didn't get more reps 'Fellas, if 18 goes down we're ****ed, and we don't practice ****ed.'

 

[livefaith]

I do believe you have touched upon what I believe is the reason for our lack of post-season success: we have consistently played a base rotation of seven players (serious minutes) throughout the season. By the time the tournament rolls around, our main guys are worn out and we just don’t have the legs. Plus, we don’t have a bench that has been developed during the season. So we collapse in the early rounds of the tourney.

The regular season is to prepare for the post-season by building depth, team chemistry, etc. I mean, what else really matters? That Williams-Schofield team could have been a Final Four team, as I see it. I have been saying for years that we should have a regular-season rotation of 8-9 players—guys you trust to play at key moments—just to have a chance come tournament time.

JMO, of course.

As hard as these guys are pushed to play D night in and out, it's no wonder they are flat come March.

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

As hard as these guys are pushed to play D night in and out, it's no wonder they are flat come March.

Oh my goodness. That’s what depth is for, playing good defense is part of basketball. We got a good coach and a great group of players that play hard. Enjoy folks! GBO

 

[walkenvol]

Awaka is a world class rebounder but doesn't do anything else on the basketball court that you need from a center well...... then again, he is a world class rebounder so you keep putting him in.

He’s become competent scoring with his back to the basket and he’s no longer a liability at the free throw line. He’s also the best we have in holding his position defensively against big guys who try to bury you under the rim like Burns of NC St. He’s improving and is not just a rebounder this season. He is fouling way way too much which is off setting his rebounding contributions to an extent. JMO

 

[KTrain]

Does a short bench hurt your team’s NCAA Tournament chances?

Can college basketball teams with short benches - like Villanova, UCLA, Baylor, and Kansas - succeed in the NCAA tournament?

fansided.com

Good article, I thought this would be the answer as a short bench uses consistency, player role recognition and that matters. Changing from a 10 man to 7 man at tournament time IMO would disrupt the team flow. Also IMO if you run 10 man rotation and lose more than you should the same fan base that wants expanded rotation will be asking for your head. Then the team hears the noise and it snowballs. There will be times you insert guys near the end in blowouts, sometimes I think Barnes doesnt take advantage of those time frames.
The qualifier would be getting through the season without an impromptu injury like the Kyle Alexander injury. It seems most the Top teams throw caution to the wind and go with 7-8 players.

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

I've advocated for a 10 player regular season rotation forever. Get the young guys some seasoning, but most importantly it will keep the core guys fresher for the NCAA's, which has always been an issue with the Barnes teams here. I'm not as concerned with conference play and rankings as I am with getting to March with a healthy, fresh group.

Come tournament time we know that the rotation will shrink to at most 8 guys, but having a couple more players (Estrella and Dillone) who are prepared to step in and contribute in big spots if needed could be the difference between moving on and being eliminated.

Curious what you are basing this on?

Injuries in post-season have demonstrably been a far large issue for CRB's tourney exits imo (i.e., Alexander, Turner, Fulky)

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

This opinion would be more valid with some research. Look at the last 5 years of final 4 teams and see if they play more than 7 players 15+ minutes in the regular season. If CRB plays 6-7 guys significantly heavier minutes than the average of final four teams then this may be a valid point. I suspect the research would prove from the 5 year sampling that the majority play 7 players or less 15+ minutes per game. Would be interesting to know if anyone wants to invest the time to find out.

Agreed. I haven't seen an exhaustive analysis but, when this has been brought up in the past, it has not passed the sniff test based on anecdotal data from other teams.

And, besides, injuries have clearly been a much bigger factor in CRB's tourney exits than this phantom weary legs narrative imo.

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

Good article, I thought this would be the answer as a short bench uses consistency, player role recognition and that matters. Changing from a 10 man to 7 man at tournament time IMO would disrupt the team flow. Also IMO if you run 10 man rotation and lose more than you should the same fan base that wants expanded rotation will be asking for your head. Then the team hears the noise and it snowballs. There will be times you insert guys near the end in blowouts, sometimes I think Barnes doesnt take advantage of those time frames.
The qualifier would be getting through the season without an impromptu injury like the Kyle Alexander injury. It seems most the Top teams throw caution to the wind and go with 7-8 players.

Look at you bringing facts and reason to VN...lol. I should have read ahead before making my posts but I'm not surprised that the nebulous "weary legs" mantra has no legs as an argument (pun intended).

 

[sami]

Even when the data suggests teams with tighter rotations have greater tourney success. Hmmm. Interesting position. Lots of ‘if’s’.

If you read my initial post, I made the point that the rotation would obviously tighten in the NCAA's. It's having the core players a bit fresher in March and getting young players some seasoning in case injury or foul trouble necessitates their getting some minutes in a big spot. It isn't rocket science or very complicated.

 

[sami]

Curious what you are basing this on?

Injuries in post-season have demonstrably been a far large issue for CRB's tourney exits imo (i.e., Alexander, Turner, Fulky)

I'm basing it on 2nd half fades in some winnable tournament games. Is it absolutely fatigue? I can't say for certain, but shooting suddenly disappearing, defensive rotations not as sharp, lack of effort on the boards - these are all things that can be attributed to fatigue.

I have no hard evidence, it's only my feeling. But I don't see the downside of getting a couple of talented freshmen some experience in conference play and lessening the minutes of the core players. Is potentially being a 3 seed instead of a 2 too big a price to pay for having a fresher core group and a deeper bench ready for March? It certainly isn't to me.

 

[Col_Cathcart]

If you read my initial post, I made the point that the rotation would obviously tighten in the NCAA's. It's having the core players a bit fresher in March and getting young players some seasoning in case injury or foul trouble necessitates their getting some minutes in a big spot. It isn't rocket science or very complicated.

And yet you refuse to acknowledge that there are both pros and cons to the idea you’re pushing. You’re oversimplifying the situation and overreacting to a hypothetical problem of lack of “freshness”

 

[jarnol32]

2 reasons…

1. Valuable experience for the younger guys so they aren’t green and essentially freshmen in their sophomore seasons. But as we’ve seen, I believe we’ll only see slight mins from them vs the higher quality teams.

2. To give guys like Aidoo and ZZ a chance to remain as fresh as possible throughout the season. This is another reason why I believe Gainey could be the real X-factor for this team if he turns his minutes into production.

I’d like to see what Carr could do with Gaineys minutes, especially if he had the green light to shoot that Gainey seems to have.

 

[sami]

And yet you refuse to acknowledge that there are both pros and cons to the idea you’re pushing. You’re oversimplifying the situation and overreacting to a hypothetical problem of lack of “freshness”

I'm giving my opinion, which is presumably what we do on public forums like this. There are pros and cons to any and every decision, but to me the 'cost' of a possibly lower seed is outweighed by the benefits of expanding the regular season rotation. That isn't 'oversimplifying' or 'overreacting', it is simply my opinion based on years of watching solid UT teams fail in March. If your view is different, that's fine, and it's why forums like this are valuable to the fan base.

 

[walkenvol]

I’d like to see what Carr could do with Gaineys minutes, especially if he had the green light to shoot that Gainey seems to have.

Odd thought following Gainey’s performance in the bama game?

 

[Walkman]

I do believe you have touched upon what I believe is the reason for our lack of post-season success: we have consistently played a base rotation of seven players (serious minutes) throughout the season. By the time the tournament rolls around, our main guys are worn out and we just don’t have the legs. Plus, we don’t have a bench that has been developed during the season. So we collapse in the early rounds of the tourney.

The regular season is to prepare for the post-season by building depth, team chemistry, etc. I mean, what else really matters? That Williams-Schofield team could have been a Final Four team, as I see it. I have been saying for years that we should have a regular-season rotation of 8-9 players—guys you trust to play at key moments—just to have a chance come tournament time.

JMO, of course.

Bingo, you nailed it! I to believe that the younger guys like Estrella, Dillion, Gainey are key for our long term success this year in the tourney. Also, hoping that Awaka figures it out that will be huge!

 

[orangemadam]

I don't know what the stats say but I am not against a 7 man rotation. I say
win as many games as possible during the season and don't potentially sacrifice a seeding in
order to get freshmen experience. A one or 2 seed will be greatly beneficial.

If we go against a strong post presence, then most likely it would be in the S16
or E8. Hopefully by then Awaka and Aidoo will have very good experience resulting
in improved play by March. Estrella should be greatly improved by then also
even if he only plays 5-10 min in scrub time leading to March.

 

[orangemadam]

Hey we can even go to a 6 man rotation as long as two of them are Knecht and Mashack.
Mashack can play any position, even as a small 5!

 

[jarnol32]

Odd thought following Gainey’s performance in the bama game?

Not so odd when you look at Gaineys stats. He’s shooting 29% from 3 and 34% from the field. He averages one turnover and one assist per game, and 2 rebounds per game. I just don’t understand how a guy shooting those percentages gets the green light especially in a Rick Barnes offense. Not to mention Gainey gets blown by on defense more than any guard we have.

 

[Vols All Day]

We really pushed the ball up the court against Bama especially off turnovers and their tempo played into our hands. UT has the ability and luxury in that we can beat teams in a variety of ways and if we continue to quicken the pace, we can play more in the rotation (ie: Estrella and Dilione). For our long-term goals this year, I think it is important we get some quality minutes from both Estrella and Dilione every game. There is no sport in my opinion where the officials affect the game than college basketball. When Aidoo/Awaka and ZZ get into foul trouble, which will happen especially with officials who aren't used to seeing our defense in action, just based on reputation alone, we are unfairly penalized.

Dilione in particular has certainly struggled at times, but given the foot issue earlier in the season which likely is still lingering, if he can spell Zeigler maybe up to 10 minutes per game and not be a problem on the court defensively or with turnovers, he could be the one additional weapon we need in March off the bench. His offensive skills, ability to drive and score, given how much we can spread the court is another reason why this squad still has some upside in months ahead. Get 20 pts off the bench from Awaka/Estrella, Mashack, Gainey and Dilione consistently than we can play anybody on any court. In all our losses (except Purdue) we didn't get much off the bench.

I have really enjoyed the faster pace the Vols have played with in the Florida and Alabama games. The Vols are getting fastbreak points and the Vols are getting more offensive possessions. More offensive possessions means more opportunities for everyone.