Is mayor Pete on the hot seat?

#176
#176
hog88 said:
I understand why professionals such as Drs, Nurses and Lawyers get direct commissioned, what's the use of putting them through OCS?
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As a matter of filling positions I get it too, but let me tell you WHY it can matter. I had a friend who was a Gunny on a base in Afghanistan. They had some new people coming into the base when it came under attack just outside the base. I do not remember if it was IED or mortar, but the convoy was properly messed up, the ranking officer was a surgeon, when they got to it they were in complete disarray no one was organizing them defensively, they had weapons mostly which were laying on the ground, and their commanding officer was sitting in the vehicle sobbing, unable to give orders or direct them into any sort of defensive posture. In the end they needed a surgeon and that dr got a good rank for her skill set, but when it mattered to many around her she was untrained and unable to make decisions and it likely cost some lives. you never know when that time will come. Now I still think it makes since to direct commission for some positions like medical, however it's never optimal, it ALWAYS matters when you give a rank to someone without proper training....it should ONLY be done for people with key specialized skill sets, and not just some politically connected goof with political asperations.....because the consequences of doing so for politically connected can be huge.
 
#177
#177
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
As a matter of filling positions I get it too, but let me tell you WHY it can matter. I had a friend who was a Gunny on a base in Afghanistan. They had some new people coming into the base when it came under attack just outside the base. I do not remember if it was IED or mortar, but the convoy was properly messed up, the ranking officer was a surgeon, when they got to it they were in complete disarray no one was organizing them defensively, they had weapons mostly which were laying on the ground, and their commanding officer was sitting in the vehicle sobbing, unable to give orders or direct them into any sort of defensive posture. In the end they needed a surgeon and that dr got a good rank for her skill set, but when it mattered to many around her she was untrained and unable to make decisions and it likely cost some lives. you never know when that time will come. Now I still think it makes since to direct commission for some positions like medical, however it's never optimal, it ALWAYS matters when you give a rank to someone without proper training....it should ONLY be done for people with key specialized skill sets, and not just some politically connected goof with political asperations.....because the consequences of doing so for politically connected can be huge.
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It would probably be best if those direct commission professionals were made Warrant Officers instead of Os.
 
#179
#179
MG1968 said:
And treated with the same lack of respect that’s always been shown warrant officers.
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Yep, can't see that you would get many professional types that the military needs that way. Even O-5 or O-6 pay isn't going to match what a lot of docs, lawyers, or other professionals would make outside the military.
 
#181
#181
AM64 said:
Yep, can't see that you would get many professional types that the military needs that way. Even O-5 or O-6 pay isn't going to match what a lot of docs, lawyers, or other professionals would make outside the military.
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They could always up the professional pay to compensate. I just don't think a direct commissioned O3 should be able to take command in a combat situation just because they have a set of RR tracks on their collar.
 
#182
#182
hog88 said:
They could always up the professional pay to compensate. I just don't think a direct commissioned O3 should be able to take command in a combat situation just because they have a set of RR tracks on their collar.
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I lived next door to a former military doctor and from what he told me, he got his medical school paid for and additional pay for being a doctor in the military. I think he was a Lt Col when he left and had to serve 7 years.
 
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#183
#183
VolStrom said:
I lived next door to a former military doctor and from what he told me, he got his medical school paid for and additional pay for being a doctor in the military. I think he was a Lt Col when he left and had to serve 7 years.
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An old platoon mate of mine got the Airforce to pay for him to go to pharmacy school. I don't know what he ended up retiring as.
 
#184
#184
hog88 said:
They could always up the professional pay to compensate. I just don't think a direct commissioned O3 should be able to take command in a combat situation just because they have a set of RR tracks on their collar.
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I don't know about all services, but in the Navy they can't. If you look on the blue uniform sleeve above the stripes you'll see a designator like a star for line officer or acorn for a nurse, etc; on the khaki uniform a line officer has rank on both collars and a staff officer has rank on one and corps type on the other. A staff officer theoretically cannot command - even a hospital is under a line officer who doesn't necessarily know the first thing about medical issues rather than a senior officer in a medical corps. A non line officer cannot, as far as I leaned, be a Commanding Officer; he/she may be Officer in Charge of a small group like a medical staff. The person in overall command may have come off a ship or have been a pilot, but it won't be a doc, a nurse, a JAG officer, etc. Rambo Pete was pretending to be well above his pay grade.

We had Warrant Officers in our Ordnance company; as far as I could tell they originated in the specialist ranks and went through the WO version of OCS They were without exception great guys, but I never really figured out what they were supposed to do. We had NCOs who basically ran the company at the operating level but weren't around the shop that much. As a SP-5, I ran our section at night - which basically meant getting guys there and working, helping with technical issues, keeping horseplay etc under control, and assigning site calls - which I normally took myself. We generally all knew what to do and did the job without a need for real supervision - or in other words somebody lurking around with nothing better to do than screw things up.
 
#185
#185
MG1968 said:
And treated with the same lack of respect that’s always been shown warrant officers.
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Maybe from the O side of the house, not from the E's (at least in my experience, which other than the mechanic chief and pilots, isn't much). Warrants are never around anyway lol (except pilots).

I ran a 9mm range for the best medic competition a few years back at Campbell. We had a few "docs" come out to knock out their (what is supposed to be yearly) qual. There were a few who had no idea WTF they were doing with the M17, and one that mentioned that it had been a few years since they last handled a weapon at all.
 
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#186
#186
YankeeVol said:
Maybe from the O side of the house, not from the E's (at least in my experience, which other than the mechanic chief and pilots, isn't much). Warrants are never around anyway lol (except pilots).

I ran a 9mm range for the best medic competition a few years back at Campbell. We had a few "docs" come out to knock out their (what is supposed to be yearly) qual. There were a few who had no idea WTF they were doing with the M17, and one that mentioned that it had been a few years since they last handled a weapon at all.
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Yeah. As you and Hogg both pointed out, the enlisted, even senior enlisted, treat WOs with the respect they deserve. It’s the butter bars and up looking for ticket punch promotions that tend to look down their noses at warrants. Of course butter bars, especially military school or ROTC graduates, are about the most clueless mf’ers in the field.
 
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#187
#187
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
So she'd been a nurse for 10 years, exactly what skill set did Pete bring into the mix besides political connections? pretty sure nursing school wasn't there either. My Father Was a mechanical Engineer, he still went to OCS, Most technical graduates who go in do, he still went through normal training, he could not have done his job without that training. Sure medical might be different in that she was basically doing what she had already done in civilian job. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess she didn't take pics with weapons, and try and sell an image of herself as a combat veteran. This is what Pete has done repeatedly.
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Post military, but he’s now an experienced wet nurse.
 
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#191
#191
So, What Exactly Does Pete Buttigieg Even Do?

Normally, when you want to criticize an elected or appointed official, you look at what they are doing while in office and use that to explain why they are so very terrible at their job. Whether it’s new laws, regulations, or even just simple policy proposals, it’s when they have a track record that you can best lay out your case.

Or, at least, that’s how it goes multiple times. In the curious case of the Secretary of Transportation, it’s the absence of any of that which screams ineptitude.

So, What Exactly Does Pete Buttigieg Even Do?
 
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#192
#192
Franklin Pierce said:
So, What Exactly Does Pete Buttigieg Even Do?

Normally, when you want to criticize an elected or appointed official, you look at what they are doing while in office and use that to explain why they are so very terrible at their job. Whether it’s new laws, regulations, or even just simple policy proposals, it’s when they have a track record that you can best lay out your case.

Or, at least, that’s how it goes multiple times. In the curious case of the Secretary of Transportation, it’s the absence of any of that which screams ineptitude.

So, What Exactly Does Pete Buttigieg Even Do?
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Bend over when told to and say “ah” on command. That is after all his chief expertise.
 
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