Islam, is it a religion of peace or war?

#451
#451
Roustabout said:
BTW, are you saying there is some universal stanamdard which you are judging your morality to be superior to mine? Do tell?
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No I’m not there is a universal standard I’m judging by. I don’t even care what you think. I’m saying I think the moral compass on the religious crowd on here is troubling when you can’t even call out slavery immorality for strict fear that your almighty God may actually be wrong or he is in fact, man made, or whatever reason I can’t comprehend.

What in the holy hell is wrong with just taking the good parts of the good book and running and calling out he rest for what it is?
 
#452
#452
rjd970 said:
EXidus 21 20-21

20 “And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. 21 Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.”

And that is just one example, if you want me to continue in the more disgusting verses I can.

I’m sure it was just lovely for the slaves. It’s dusgusting and repulsive this is justified in any way, time, or place.

The fact you are calling this kind of barbarism voluntary servitude or indentured servitude it whatever other whitewash terms makes it even worse. And yes, I’m making that moral judgement. This is no God or entity I would worship and the fact you can’t call this out and instead argue semantics and moral objectiveness and immutability and varying/unvarying incoherencies is past sad. Just call it what it is.
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Example of what?
Do you really think I’m ignorant of what is in the Ot?
Do you really think this is some “gotcha” moment.
Get
Over
It!

Who said it was lovely for slaves?
Not me.

It isn’t lovely being conscribed into the military.
I’d say there are a shat load of things that aren’t lovely in life.

Barbarism? According to what?
You?
Why should I give a rip what you think?
You’re just another moist robot dancing to his DNA.
 
#453
#453
Roustabout said:
Example of what?
Do you really think I’m ignorant of what is in the Ot?
Do you really think this is some “gotcha” moment.
Get
Over
It!

Who said it was lovely for slaves?
Not me.

It isn’t lovely being conscribed into the military.
I’d say there are a shat load of things that aren’t lovely in life.

Barbarism? According to what?
You?
Why should I give a rip what you think?
You’re just another moist robot dancing to his DNA.
Click to expand...

I don’t think you should give a rip what I think, and quite frankly, I’m glad you don’t if you see no issue with this kind of repulsiveniss from a deity you worship. That is your issue.
 
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#454
#454
rjd970 said:
No I’m not there is a universal standard I’m judging by. I don’t even care what you think. I’m saying I think the moral compass on the religious crowd on here is troubling when you can’t even call out slavery immorality for strict fear that your almighty God may actually be wrong or he is in fact, man made, or whatever reason I can’t comprehend.

What in the holy hell is wrong with just taking the good parts of the good book and running and calling out he rest for what it is?
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Chatted slavery was absolutely immoral and I’ve never resisted saying so. What I do resist is defining servitude and slavery from other times and places by the one you pick. The fact that you can’t study the past in it’s own context is a pretty sad indictiment.

I’ll take it all, the easy and hard.
 
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#456
#456
Job 31:13-15
(13) “If I have rejected the cause of my manservant or my maidservant, when they brought a complaint against me,
(14) what then shall I do when God rises up? When he makes inquiry, what shall I answer him?
(15) Did not he who made me in the womb make him? And did not one fashion us in the womb?
 
#458
#458
Orange_Crush said:
You'll need to show it as a fallacy, then. I've shown that God is not a human, thus is not constrained as humans are. Special pleading is:



You seem to have shown that you either don't know what the fallacy is, or you've purposefully tried to misuse it. For instance, you claimed special pleading when I said that a spiritual, immaterial, personal, all-powerful consciousness would be sufficient to create immaterial personal consciousness. You cried special pleading because you can't make the same argument that a materialist, non-personal universe is inherently sufficient to create non-material personal consciousness.

That wasn't special pleading. I justified the exception.

I stated the justification for God as an exception to humans. If you are as well read as you seem, I shouldn't have had to explicitly justify those attributes that make Him God and not human, but I did so anyway.

But again... Accuse me all you want of supposed fallacies. Just look up the definition first and save us both some trouble, eh?
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Hahaha.
 
#459
#459
Roustabout said:
Chatted slavery was absolutely immoral and I’ve never resisted saying so. What I do resist is defining servitude and slavery from other times and places by the one you pick. The fact that you can’t study the past in it’s own context is a pretty sad indictiment.

I’ll take it all, the easy and hard.
Click to expand...

In several parables, Jesus talked about the ill use and abuse of slaves. I do not remember Him ever saying "Well, those happy slaves over there...." Slavery of ancient or modern times is wrong and incompatible with Christian beliefs. Paul stepped in it with the Philemon story and should have kept his mouth shut.
 
#464
#464
Purple Tiger said:
In several parables, Jesus talked about the ill use and abuse of slaves. I do not remember Him ever saying "Well, those happy slaves over there...." Slavery of ancient or modern times is wrong and incompatible with Christian beliefs. Paul stepped in it with the Philemon story and should have kept his mouth shut.
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So, Jesus supported the proper treatment of slaves?
You really ought to think just a bit longer before you post.

We don’t have enough of the back story of Onesimus to make such a ridiculous claim.
 
#465
#465
Roustabout said:
So, Jesus supported the proper treatment of slaves?
You really ought to think just a bit longer before you post.

We don’t have enough of the back story of Onesimus to make such a ridiculous claim.
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You should start thinking before telling anyone else to think longer.

Jesus said love thy neighbor as thyself. That precludes buying anyone and forcing them to work. If you cannot see that, then you are hopeless. Paul had no right to tell anyone to return to slavery.
 
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#466
#466
rjd970 said:
I don’t think you should give a rip what I think, and quite frankly, I’m glad you don’t if you see no issue with this kind of repulsiveniss from a deity you worship. That is your issue.
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Im still wondering why all the fuss is about Christians. Why don't you say anything about the deity that requires you to kill unbelievers? Wanna talk slavery, nobody here, or other Christian nation owns slaves, but you wanna guess which religion does? Yet you're only fussing about something thousands of years ago that ypu can condemn Christians over. Right now in todays time the other religion you guys dont dare to speak against has sex and labor slaves, but you guys don't have a problem with it. Heck, a few years ago they kidnapped an entire school of their girls for srx slaves, and i dont think they were ever returned. Why don't you call out Mohammed for that crap?
 
#467
#467
joevol33 said:
Im still wondering why all the fuss is about Christians. Why don't you say anything about the deity that requires you to kill unbelievers? Wanna talk slavery, nobody here, or other Christian nation owns slaves, but you wanna guess which religion does? Yet you're only fussing about something thousands of years ago that ypu can condemn Christians over. Right now in todays time the other religion you guys dont dare to speak against has sex and labor slaves, but you guys don't have a problem with it. Heck, a few years ago they kidnapped an entire school of their girls for srx slaves, and i dont think they were ever returned. Why don't you call out Mohammed for that crap?
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I do, and I have. I’ve said repeatedly Islam has a lot longer way to go than Christianity. All religions aren’t created equal and Islam is worse than Christianity from a doctrinal point of view. Of course that means squat to the Christian contingent in here I’m sure, because it is, after all, my opinion.

If there were Islamists in here defending slavery and calling homosexuality a moral issue I would be saying just the same about Islam being a bunch of primitive nonsense with antiquated moral codes and superstitions.
 
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#468
#468
Purple Tiger said:
You should start thinking before telling anyone else to think longer.

Jesus said love thy neighbor as thyself. That precludes buying anyone and forcing them to work. If you cannot see that, then you are hopeless. Paul had no right to tell anyone to return to slavery.
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you may want to re-read Mark 10.
 
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#469
#469
rjd970 said:
I do, and I have. I’ve said repeatedly Islam has a lot longer way to go than Christianity. All religions aren’t created equal and Islam is worse than Christianity from a doctrinal point of view. Of course that means squat to the Christian contingent in here I’m sure, because it is, after all, my opinion.

If there were Islamists in here defending slavery and calling homosexuality a moral issue I would be saying just the same about Islam being a bunch of primitive nonsense with antiquated moral codes and superstitions.
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Then my apologies to you for being fair about it.
 
#472
#472
Purple Tiger said:
You should start thinking before telling anyone else to think longer.

Jesus said love thy neighbor as thyself. That precludes buying anyone and forcing them to work. If you cannot see that, then you are hopeless. Paul had no right to tell anyone to return to slavery.
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You’re doing it wrong. What a horrible exegete you are.
It’s pretty obvious that you’re the product of some liberal, universalist seminary. Sadly, it’s becoming pretty common.

Debtors should pay their debts. It’s apparent that you are completely out of touch with the realities of those times. I guess folks would just go down to the welfare office and get some freebies. Go to the soup kitchen? Wait, move into subsidized housing. Go to the unemployment office?

Servitude WAS a form of employment. You are equivocating. You have no idea what the terms were for Onisemus. None!! All you are concerned with is how you can find a way to create a divide between “superfluous” Paul and Jesus. Your agenda is clear to several of us on here. Jesus preached servitude, submission. You can’t take any verse out of the context of the greater message of what Jesus taught. Onisemus was likely under a contract of servitude and was unloving to break that contract. If you want to do a word study of Paul’s use of Dualos be my guest.

You want to take one very narrow view of a term and apply it to all. That is a textbook example of the fallacy of equivocation.
 
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#474
#474
rjd970 said:
I do, and I have. I’ve said repeatedly Islam has a lot longer way to go than Christianity. All religions aren’t created equal and Islam is worse than Christianity from a doctrinal point of view. Of course that means squat to the Christian contingent in here I’m sure, because it is, after all, my opinion.

If there were Islamists in here defending slavery and calling homosexuality a moral issue I would be saying just the same about Islam being a bunch of primitive nonsense with antiquated moral codes and superstitions.
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This is an unfortunate problem with these discussions. Notice how RD basically created a moral coup by lumping traditional moral values in with slave trading.

Some of us are simply willing to look at the ancient past and evaluate the harsh realities of their culture, not with our bias, but with reality.

We’ll see these same kind of attacks on morality and you can bet it won’t be long before the progressives are trying to make the failure to accept their moral norms a crime. Oh wait, we already see that.
 
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