Israel vs Palestinians

#25,101
#25,101
EasternVol said:
Hamas is a political party so I wouldn't give just them anything in particular. I'd give the Palestinians as close to possible of a fair settlement on land and sovereignty.
If it's not blind support then I don't know what is. If we want to let them figure it out on their own then both sides need to do it without our technology and weapons, how's that?
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Fine by me.


But just to be clear they don't want their fair share of land and sovereignty, they want it all. They've made that abundantly clear.

And to add if you give anything to Palestinians it is being given to Hamas and IJ, they control who get what and when...... willingly.
 
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#25,102
#25,102
KB5252 said:
Fine by me.


But just to be clear they don't want their fair share of land and sovereignty, they want it all. They've made that abundantly clear.

And to add if you give anything to Palestinians it is being given to Hamas and IJ, they control who get what and when...... willingly.
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Maybe they can all share, who knows?
Hamas will soon be finished as a political entity. We'll have to see who takes their place.
 
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#25,103
#25,103
KB5252 said:
I agree we're entangled to some extent....... But you're wrong to this point. We fund Palestinians too, through the UN, so to some degree we are just as responsible for the Oct 7th attacks.

To slices point maybe we should just stay out of it. Good intentions get us nowhere. Those two are just going to kill each other until it's settled anyway.

I'm not going to cheer the deaths of anyone or any group....... But if they're just going to fight until it's settled maybe we should let them........
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Bingo.
We pay one side to attack. Then we pay the other side to defend that attack. Then we pay for the retaliation and eventually we pay for the rebuilding….all with money we don’t have. He have a proven history of simply making things worse. We clearly can make the situation better by doing nothing and staying out of it.
 
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#25,104
#25,104
EasternVol said:
Hamas is a political party so I wouldn't give just them anything in particular. I'd give the Palestinians as close to possible of a fair settlement on land and sovereignty.
If it's not blind support then I don't know what is. If we want to let them figure it out on their own then both sides need to do it without our technology and weapons, how's that?
Click to expand...
Absolutely.
They’re still going to kill each other.
They can just do it without our money and any attempt from us to tell them what to do about it.
 
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#25,106
#25,106
KB5252 said:
If isn't blind support. It's an impossible situation. Palestinians do not want to be free in Israel, they want to be free of Israel. They want Israel to cease to exist. They want all of it, from the river to the sea. Until they give up that cause there can never be peace....... Unless Israel ceases to exist.

It's that simple unfortunately. I take every player in this unfortunate game at face value. Where is the middle ground to be had? It's all or nothing and both sides appear to be tired of playing games..... Let them figure it out on their own.
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I feel like this needs to be repeated over and over
 
#25,107
#25,107
Orangeslice13 said:
Bingo.
We pay one side to attack. Then we pay the other side to defend that attack. Then we pay for the retaliation and eventually we pay for the rebuilding….all with money we don’t have. He have a proven history of simply making things worse. We clearly can make the situation better by doing nothing and staying out of it.
Click to expand...

You know who makes the money off both sides in the conflict?
 
#25,109
#25,109
n_huffhines said:
We're not supposed to be against genocide because Hamas has 8 Americans? Nobody is saying Hamas is the good guys, right? Nobody is defending or supporting them in any way, shape, or form. No reminers necessary
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I disagree.

We should be pro mass killing of those who hold American hostages.
 
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#25,110
#25,110
Orangeslice13 said:
The industrial military complex….and the rest politicians sold out to it.
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The bankers are the ones making the money, remember that they also finance the MIC. We the US taxpayer ends up footing the bill because our government guarantees the loans and payments and the bankers get paid regardless.
 
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#25,112
#25,112
EasternVol said:
Maybe they can all share, who knows?
Hamas will soon be finished as a political entity. We'll have to see who takes their place.
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I agree but the sentiment within the Palestinian people is the same. They want it all, no cooperation. From the river to the sea.

And supposedly educated men and women in this country repeat that mantra again and again, not fully understanding what that means.

It's all incredibly frustrating and an impossible situation.
 
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#25,113
#25,113
KB5252 said:
I agree but the sentiment within the Palestinian people is the same. They want it all, no cooperation. From the river to the sea.

And supposedly educated men and women in this country repeat that mantra again and again, not fully understanding what that means.

It's all incredibly frustrating and an impossible situation.
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Israel has the same mantra and the same objective and has had them for a long time. It is an impossible or next to impossible situation thanks to mistakes being made and repeated for a more than a hundred years.
 
#25,114
#25,114
EasternVol said:
Israel has the same mantra and the same objective and has had them for a long time. It is an impossible or next to impossible situation thanks to mistakes being made and repeated for a more than a hundred years.
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I don't disagree with any of that. Unfortunately for Palestinians Israel controls the country they reside in.
 
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#25,117
#25,117
volfanhill said:
Hamas started the current problem. They had no care for innocents. Why should Israel? Hamas leaders have been proven to hide in hospitals and shcools. Why do they do that? How much deference do we show to civilian life when we drone strike high level targets? I'd find the Palestinian people sympathetic if they hadn't elected a terrorist group to run the show. Israel has been far from perfect. Just like every other country in war. Let me know when they hide behind innocent civilians
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I just hold ourselves to a higher standard. It sounds like you're good with giving Israel our $ and helping them kill innocents because you view October 16 as starting it, and because Hamas is worse. None of that factors in my moral judgement of our involvement. We are helping a nation kill tens of thousands of innocents (maybe a reason American hostages are being held) and that's over 25x the body count on Hamas.

Stay out of it. Go to heaven.
 
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#25,118
#25,118
n_huffhines said:
I just hold ourselves to a higher standard. It sounds like you're good with giving Israel our $ and helping them kill innocents because you view October 16 as starting it, and because Hamas is worse. None of that factors in my moral judgement of our involvement. We are helping a nation kill tens of thousands of innocents (maybe a reason American hostages are being held) and that's over 25x the body count on Hamas.

Stay out of it. Go to heaven.
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Does body count determine justification?
 
#25,119
#25,119
n_huffhines said:
I just hold ourselves to a higher standard. It sounds like you're good with giving Israel our $ and helping them kill innocents because you view October 16 as starting it, and because Hamas is worse. None of that factors in my moral judgement of our involvement. We are helping a nation kill tens of thousands of innocents (maybe a reason American hostages are being held) and that's over 25x the body count on Hamas.

Stay out of it. Go to heaven.
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The standard should be Americans are untouchable and if you do you and yours will pay a high price.
 
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#25,120
#25,120
n_huffhines said:
I just hold ourselves to a higher standard. It sounds like you're good with giving Israel our $ and helping them kill innocents because you view October 16 as starting it, and because Hamas is worse. None of that factors in my moral judgement of our involvement. We are helping a nation kill tens of thousands of innocents (maybe a reason American hostages are being held) and that's 10x the body count on Hamas.

Stay out of it. Go to heaven.
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It is interesting how we frame the discussions here. I don't know of any poster who votes for candidates based on their support / or lack of support of Israel. It may be one of the "added value" positions of a candidate they already like but I don't think it is a make or break issue for anyone.
Except for the most partisan, many of us want less spending. We certainly don't call our reps and say spend more money on Israel...or any other budget item. We are generally left to talk about the issues without any real skin in the game one way or the other.

Personally, no matter what date we choose on the timeline as the starting point, neither side has acted morally. But just from a logistics perspective, Hamas is absolutely unwise to poke the bear of a mightier nation. And they are unwise regardless of justification.
 
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#25,124
#25,124
n_huffhines said:
I just hold ourselves to a higher standard. It sounds like you're good with giving Israel our $ and helping them kill innocents because you view October 16 as starting it, and because Hamas is worse. None of that factors in my moral judgement of our involvement. We are helping a nation kill tens of thousands of innocents (maybe a reason American hostages are being held) and that's over 25x the body count on Hamas.

Stay out of it. Go to heaven.
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October 7th.
 
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