Israel vs Palestinians

#25,179
#25,179
volfanhill said:
Anyone have a guess as to why Iran has yet to respond to Israel? They will. But why the delay? As much as some on here mocked Biden it's because he handled it perfectly. He said "don't." They know what that means. That's the power of the US military. Not nation building. It's simply we will kick your ass in short order. They will have a response that means little. Like when they swore hell would break lose when Trump killed their general
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My guess is they’re negotiating with Biden (a surrogate, he’s obviously no longer with us) about what is permissible. If my memory is right, that’s what happened last time.

Also, have you seen the reports that the Biden admin provided Iran with the name of Israeli intelligence members involved in the recent assassination?
 
#25,181
#25,181
n_huffhines said:
But it doesn't cost anything and it doesn't kill thousands of people.

If another terrorist cell kidnaps some Americans and their demand is we cut off funding to country X, I'll take that as an unintended consequence. It's a much better outcome than war, or almost any heavy measure imaginable.
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Once you start appeasing them there isn’t an “if” it’s when another cell kidnaps some Americans.

Ever fed a stray dog?
 
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#25,182
#25,182
n_huffhines said:
You're saying there is no chance the law of unintended consequences would factor?
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Good question. My position is that any action has an unintended consequence factor associated with it. To illustrate with extremes, both brutal, unreasonable force and cooperative, reasonable appeasement can foster a long-term response which would be undesirable to Americans. Reasonable appeasement creates an incentive to take Americans hostage.
When I consider how most people avoid pain, discomfort, or death, it seems to me the risk of unintended consequences is lower for brutal, deadly action. America should be like a momma grizzly bear. Keep your distance and under no circumstances do anything to make her think you are a threat to her cubs. Because if you threaten her cubs, your life is over.
 
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#25,184
#25,184
n_huffhines said:
Because he's on ignore.

I would not have a blanket policy that is predictable and can be used against me. I would treat every hostage situation differently, but all starting with diplomacy.

In this case, I'd offer Hamas an agreement to cut off aid to Israel. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone
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If your child throws a tantrum in the store (not that yours would) for a toy, do you acquiesce and give in to the child? Do you offer them something else? Do you explain things calmly and rationally?

How do you handle that as a parent?
 
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#25,187
#25,187
n_huffhines said:
But it doesn't cost anything and it doesn't kill thousands of people.

If another terrorist cell kidnaps some Americans and their demand is we cut off funding to country X, I'll take that as an unintended consequence. It's a much better outcome than war, or almost any heavy measure imaginable.
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I absolutely agree any solution is preferable to war. But I also accept that some cultures/countries/governments respect violence.
 
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#25,189
#25,189
volfanhill said:
The government of the United State position should be one of our citizens means more than all of yours. Period. Now their are tons of issues that fall into that equation to include what would war look like etc.. But the baseline point is 1 American is more important to us than your entire country. Kind of why a country exists. At some point war happens bc it's more than one .
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Well said. Complete agreement.
 
#25,190
#25,190
volfanhill said:
The message is the problem. It tells others if you want the US to back off then all you have to do is kidnap our folks. I'm sorry. It should be the opposite. You kidnap ours we reign down terror and hell until we get ours back. Period.
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I want to back off. Send the message. Our hostages are an enticing target because our history is that we don't back off.
 
#25,191
#25,191
volfanhill said:
The government of the United State position should be one of our citizens means more than all of yours. Period. Now their are tons of issues that fall into that equation to include what would war look like etc.. But the baseline point is 1 American is more important to us than your entire country. Kind of why a country exists. At some point war happens bc it's more than one .
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**** no. This is asking for perpetual war
 
#25,193
#25,193
McDad said:
If your child throws a tantrum in the store (not that yours would) for a toy, do you acquiesce and give in to the child? Do you offer them something else? Do you explain things calmly and rationally?

How do you handle that as a parent?
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Never had that situation
 
#25,195
#25,195
n_huffhines said:
We've done so well with this policy, too. Trillions wasted going heavy-handed and still got hostages taken. Well done, America.
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The sword has two edges. We are speaking about the blade of response to hostages taken. That blade doesn't function in reverse...because we've waged war no hostages will be taken. It's not rational to make that claim. I've punished my child for hitting their sibling. That punishment did not prevent them from breaking another rule.

The other blade on the sword is how we wage war. And the way we do it is completely wrong, imo. Hog and I had a discussion about this topic several months ago. And the level of unmitigated brutality we should commit to in war is something that makes my stomach turn. If we cannot commit to that level of brutality, then we have no business going to war...except of course, war is good for business (which is another topic for another day).
 
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#25,196
#25,196
n_huffhines said:
Never had that situation
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That's good. Even though it hasn't happened are you incapable of imagining it? If not, what would you do as a parent in that situation?

It happened to me, once. Not over a toy but something else my daughter wanted. I'll share the story, which is kind of funny, after the hypothetical.
 
#25,200
#25,200
There are 2 big problems with thinking you, as hypothetical POTUS, can "send a message" once or twice, say, killing 40k Palestinians over hostages and expecting the message to be permanently received....

1) terrorists aren't exactly rational and I don't think it's consistently the deterrent it would be for a western power. Some terrorist will think twice. Some will not GAF. Again, some want to goad us into action.

2) there is no guarantee at all that your actions will have a lasting impact bc you aren't going to be POTUS for the next 40 years. You'll be out of office in 2 years and terrorists will be curious about testing the next guy, whether or not he will take a heavy hand.

It's like the border. Trump tried to be tough. Illegal entry was growing still big time by year 4 and then even more with his successor hecause of how he is perceived, despite the fact that there isn't much difference in policy at the border. These things never work neatly like the fancy government planners think they will.
 
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