Israel vs Palestinians

#25,227
#25,227
norrislakevol said:
The Islamist world understands two things, and two things only: Money, and fear. If you don't want to pay them then you have to kill them. Paying them is only temporary, they keep acting out to get more and more. We only half-azz kill them, just like Israel. You have to make them afraid of you if you want a long-term solution, and this can be done, but no one has the stones to do it.
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This is stupid, Muslims aren’t cavemen or lesser people
 
#25,228
#25,228
dalton_vol said:
Yep, the Muslim have took control of much of American policy since 9-11. The screamed racism to every liberal and moderate political and they caved. They also worked with many pro-marxist groups in America and Europe.

England has dies right before our eye from the immigration nightmare. They are sentencing English citizens years in prison for making posts yet they are protecting the immigrants. How can I country just betray itself. America is happening the same
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England has speech laws, that’s not a new thing
 
#25,229
#25,229
n_huffhines said:
I am talking about what we should do, in other words, because this is foreign policy, what I would do if I were POTUS.

The child's tantrum is an interesting parallel that doesn't exactly translate because Hamas is not a child I am raising or living with. It's more like multiple kids on the other side of the state throwing tantrums, and I don't need to be involved in that.
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Agreed. A child's tantrum in the store is not equatable to global policy wrt kidnapped Americans.

What it does is illustrate the concept we are discussing even though the application of that concept isn't the same.

So, how does daddy huff handle the kid?
 
#25,231
#25,231
EasternVol said:
It's whoever follows that path.
RTX is the result of the merger of Raytheon and UTC / Collins. $69 billion in revenue and $3.5 billion EBIT in 2023 for those keeping score at home.
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Thanks. That's a pretty good score.

Those paths have been followed before and they didn't not lead to what you're predicting. Those paths have been followed before and they have led to what you're predicting. So for me, if the path leads to divergent outcomes what is different between the two? Once discovered, all we have to do is follow that difference to lead to the better outcome.
 
#25,234
#25,234
n_huffhines said:
There are 2 big problems with thinking you, as hypothetical POTUS, can "send a message" once or twice, say, killing 40k Palestinians over hostages and expecting the message to be permanently received....

1) terrorists aren't exactly rational and I don't think it's consistently the deterrent it would be for a western power. Some terrorist will think twice. Some will not GAF. Again, some want to goad us into action.

2) there is no guarantee at all that your actions will have a lasting impact bc you aren't going to be POTUS for the next 40 years. You'll be out of office in 2 years and terrorists will be curious about testing the next guy, whether or not he will take a heavy hand.

It's like the border. Trump tried to be tough. Illegal entry was growing still big time by year 4 and then even more with his successor hecause of how he is perceived, despite the fact that there isn't much difference in policy at the border. These things never work neatly like the fancy government planners think they will.
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It's not about the individual POTUS, it should be a national policy/mindset that transcends administrations. The globe should know that no matter who is installed in the oval office screwing around with Americans is a bad bad idea.
 
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#25,236
#25,236
n_huffhines said:
I am talking about what we should do, in other words, because this is foreign policy, what I would do if I were POTUS.

The child's tantrum is an interesting parallel that doesn't exactly translate because Hamas is not a child I am raising or living with. It's more like multiple kids on the other side of the state throwing tantrums, and I don't need to be involved in that.
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But when they hurt your child you are involved.

To use your analogy.
 
#25,240
#25,240
McDad said:
Thanks. That's a pretty good score.

Those paths have been followed before and they didn't not lead to what you're predicting. Those paths have been followed before and they have led to what you're predicting. So for me, if the path leads to divergent outcomes what is different between the two? Once discovered, all we have to do is follow that difference to lead to the better outcome.
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I guess you intend a difference between 'they didn't not lead to' and 'they have led to' and you're saying sometimes total war is effective and sometimes it blows up in the face of the one waging it, to study the conditions where it does work, and apply it accordingly. But has it ever been used in modern times with the Geneva Convention, international law, a UN and all that?
 
#25,244
#25,244
McDad said:
I disagree with your assessment.

His post:

shows he isn't ignoring untintended consequences of his ideas.

I think it is more accurate to say huff believes the unintended consequences of his idea are better than the unintended consequence of my idea.
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That's part of it, except I'm also factoring the cost of action.

if we decide we want to have a heavy response, we're

still paying Israel + adding an expensive response that could potentially entangle us for a generation + unintended consequences

vs.

unintended consequences + Israel savings
 
#25,246
#25,246
EasternVol said:
I guess you intend a difference between 'they didn't not lead to' and 'they have led to' and you're saying sometimes total war is effective and sometimes it blows up in the face of the one waging it, to study the conditions where it does work, and apply it accordingly. But has it ever been used in modern times with the Geneva Convention, international law, a UN and all that?
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I don't know if it has been used under those guidelines. But is it a reasonable position for me to say kidnapping Americans and holding them hostage doesn't fall under those guidelines. And since the aggressor (those taking hostages) has acted out of bounds, our response can also be out of bounds?
 
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#25,248
#25,248
McDad said:
I don't know if it has been used under those guidelines. But is it a reasonable position for me to say kidnapping Americans and holding them hostage doesn't fall under those guidelines. And since the aggressor (those taking hostages) has acted out of bounds, our response can also be out of bounds?
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I don't think it works that way. Our response still needs to be in bounds.
 
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#25,249
#25,249
EasternVol said:
The measures mentioned in the post I replied to and said they would get us nothing but never ending war.
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I'm sorry. I am still unclear. I am not sure if the measures are "bombing wedding parties" or "brutal warfare".

I asked about blowback of those specific countries because we have been at war, sometime brutally, with all of them in our brief history. And yet, even with the most horrific weapon used against Japan, and brutal practices against Germany there isn't lingering blowback as far as I can tell.
 
#25,250
#25,250
n_huffhines said:
That's part of it, except I'm also factoring the cost of action.

if we decide we want to have a heavy response, we're

still paying Israel + adding an expensive response that could potentially entangle us for a generation + unintended consequences

vs.

unintended consequences + Israel savings
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I am in favor of both. Let's unentangle ourselves from other countries AND draw a hard line against American hostages.

If we go to war and incur expense, what better reason than to protect Americans today and in the future,
 
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