Israel vs Palestinians

#26,102
#26,102
hog88 said:
We don’t have to use our military we just need to take the handcuffs off Israel. Having that known would deter Iran.
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That’s why Iran is tryingvto get their licks i now. Their time is limited. They have realized that there will be a new Sheriff in town come January 20
 
#26,104
#26,104
volgr said:
Seems like Israel has gone out of their to provoke a response...and they got one.
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It could be read that way. But I read it slightly different.

I think Israel counted is a much closer ally, and was snubbed publicly by this administration this summer. So instead of counting on the US through the UN to get something done regarding Hezbollah they went out on their own and are doing what they they need to..... Right or wrong, I think that's the Israeli view right now.
 
#26,105
#26,105
KB5252 said:
A strong leader is a deterrent, a weak leader you can take chances and play it a little loose.

I didn't say threat, there is a big difference.

Maybe it makes a difference, maybe it doesn't but if your looking to start trouble you going to knock over the weaker, frail guy or the one that looks like he means business?
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But what gives him strength? It's the us military when he had no real negotiating skills. No one is trying to knock over the US
 
#26,106
#26,106
OrangeTsar said:
That’s why Iran is tryingvto get their licks i now. Their time is limited. They have realized that there will be a new Sheriff in town come January 20
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That is also why Bibi is laying it on while he can. Trump will force them both to the table more aggressively. Say what you want about Trump but he obviously considers war bad for business. Yes he blusters and bloviates but beneath it, he negotiates. Most importantly, it is hard to pigeonhole Trump because he might indeed do something very unexpected. He does wildcard things just enough to keep everyone off balance and guessing. Eg, eliminating Soleimani.
 
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#26,107
#26,107
lawgator1 said:
He has tried to stop this from escalating. What do you expect he or any President to do ?
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not be president with dementia for one. he clearly does not have the mental capacity to run for president or have a grasp over what is going on worldwide and everyday he's in office we get closer and closer to total war
 
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#26,108
#26,108
utvolpj said:
But what gives him strength? It's the us military when he had no real negotiating skills. No one is trying to knock over the US
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No doubt, but it's strength and power projected by a leader who's mental capacity and ability to effectively communicate is severely diminished.

He's weak and vulnerable at home. He's not projecting US strength and power.

Like I said, maybe it wouldn't have made a difference but strong leadership has deterred conflict in the past.
 
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#26,110
#26,110
jmacvols1 said:
Saiganesh
@im_saiganesh


In the recent missile attack on Israel by Iran, video footage reveals that a significant number of missiles were not intercepted by Israel's Iron Dome system. While some argue that the sheer volume of missiles overwhelmed the defense system, advanced air defense systems like the Iron Dome are designed to handle 100s of missiles at the same time. Therefore, the high number of missiles alone may not explain the failure. Two possibilities emerge:

1) The Iron Dome's capabilities might be overstated.
2) Israel may have deliberately allowed the missiles through to justify a retaliatory strike on Iran.

What’s clear is that Israel’s response to Iran is likely to be far more intense.
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volgr said:
Seems like Israel has gone out of their to provoke a response...and they got one.
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The fog of war makes it impossible to know which things are being done for show, or to justify steps to be taken several moves down the road.
 
#26,111
#26,111
Gandalf said:
Most importantly, it is hard to pigeonhole Trump because he might indeed do something very unexpected. He does wildcard things just enough to keep everyone off balance and guessing.
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That's because he's just not very smart. He can sell himself like no one else but in the end there's really no substance
 
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#26,112
#26,112
OrangeTsar said:
Your statement shows that you have absolutely no concept of evangelical Christianity or even of wider Christian theology in general.
No one is trying to do anything to „bring about the rapture. We Christians are no so arrogant to believe we can affect God‘s calendar one iota. God is Sovereign and he has fixed the dates of both the Rapture and of Armageddon in his calendar and they WILL happen at the appointed time. He is not waiting on us to do anything.
What Evangelicals DO believe is that the current situation in the Middle East seems to be setting the stage for the events of Revelation. Crediting Christians with trying to CAUSE the Rapture is the logical equivalent of accusing the Weatherman of trying to cause rain tomorrow when he forecasts it.
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I understand that the "rapture" is an invention of the last century or so; is a human creation mentioned nowhere in the Bible (aside from a single stretch of an interpretation of one verse in Revelation); is a bastardization of Gospel teachings that explicitly explain that the cycles of the Old Covenant were fulfilled by Jesus Christ; is a manipulation tool that the signwatchers use making them Pharisaical at best and downright evil at worst; and, finally, that modern Evangelical Christianity is an absolute abomination that resembles old Gnosticism and heretical history in the church way more than the actual Christianity in the Bible and early church writings.

The church is weak because they read signs and expect the end day after day after day rather than strengthening their churches and living a life focused on Jesus. How often must the end be imminent before Evangelicals realize they're eating up a modern-day, devil-inspired farce? Is the last 75+ years of Middle East-watching, nailbiting, sign-interpreting BS not enough?

When you focus on "Israel" and "rapture" rather than the living God, you lose. And churches are losing and will continue to lose so long as they cling to heresy. I understand much, much more than you think.
 
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#26,113
#26,113
OrangeTsar said:
Your statement shows that you have absolutely no concept of evangelical Christianity or even of wider Christian theology in general.
No one is trying to do anything to „bring about the rapture. We Christians are no so arrogant to believe we can affect God‘s calendar one iota. God is Sovereign and he has fixed the dates of both the Rapture and of Armageddon in his calendar and they WILL happen at the appointed time. He is not waiting on us to do anything.
What Evangelicals DO believe is that the current situation in the Middle East seems to be setting the stage for the events of Revelation. Crediting Christians with trying to CAUSE the Rapture is the logical equivalent of accusing the Weatherman of trying to cause rain tomorrow when he forecasts it.
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That's not quite true. Many want the rapture ASAP because they're deluded enough to think they're among the chosen few that get into Heaven. They pray for it and lobby for aid to those they think will hasten it and vote for politicians who tell them what they want to hear.
 
#26,114
#26,114
OrangeTsar said:
That’s why Iran is tryingvto get their licks i now. Their time is limited. They have realized that there will be a new Sheriff in town come January 20
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Too bad Iran is really bad at fighting . They talk a lot of junk, but they can never back it up. They always use their puppets to fight the Jews, but they never really want the smoke. When they get it, they claim the Israeli’s are overstepping or whatever bs they can concoct . Does anybody actually like the Iranians ? The Saudi’s, Jordanians, formerly the Iraqis, The Taliban, they all hate them, probably more than they hate Israel, but would never say it out loud.
 
#26,115
#26,115
utvolpj said:
That's because he's just not very smart. He can sell himself like no one else but in the end there's really no substance
Click to expand...


Trump's mercurial nature is not a good thing in a scenario rapidly unfolding like this one, and for at least two reasons.

First and foremost, he is motivated to do only what he thinks will earn him praise, either from the combatants or here at home, and only in the here and now. He has no concept of restraint for the long term benefit of everyone else.

Second, and not far behind, unpredictability is what leads to miscalculation. If he were to talk about striking Iran, for example, with US aircraft thinking he's going to be lauded as a tough guy (by people with their own agendas) he may engender a preemptive attack by Iran that only makes things worse because they cannot reasonably anticipate a calm and measured or appropriate response by him.

The MAGA crowd likes Trump because they buy into the notion that his saber rattling is a good thing. Wish they'd see the false bravado for what it is and understand that response and counter-response right now are best left to the level-headed professionals in the military, and not Trump thinking of tomorrow's headlines how he, and he alone, took some great action.
 
#26,116
#26,116
KB5252 said:
It could be read that way. But I read it slightly different.

I think Israel counted is a much closer ally, and was snubbed publicly by this administration this summer. So instead of counting on the US through the UN to get something done regarding Hezbollah they went out on their own and are doing what they they need to..... Right or wrong, I think that's the Israeli view right now.
Click to expand...

Israel has the most powerful lobby in DC. I think the US govt is as strong an ally to Israel as ever. The rest is political theater.
 
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#26,117
#26,117
lawgator1 said:
Trump's mercurial nature is not a good thing in a scenario rapidly unfolding like this one, and for at least two reasons.

First and foremost, he is motivated to do only what he thinks will earn him praise, either from the combatants or here at home, and only in the here and now. He has no concept of restraint for the long term benefit of everyone else.

Second, and not far behind, unpredictability is what leads to miscalculation. If he were to talk about striking Iran, for example, with US aircraft thinking he's going to be lauded as a tough guy (by people with their own agendas) he may engender a preemptive attack by Iran that only makes things worse because they cannot reasonably anticipate a calm and measured or appropriate response by him.

The MAGA crowd likes Trump because they buy into the notion that his saber rattling is a good thing. Wish they'd see the false bravado for what it is and understand that response and counter-response right now are best left to the level-headed professionals in the military, and not Trump thinking of tomorrow's headlines how he, and he alone, took some great action.
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What line of thinking does this fall under? I’m ok w/ this btw

 
#26,118
#26,118
volgr said:
Israel has the most powerful lobby in DC. I think the US govt is as strong an ally to Israel as ever. The rest is political theater.
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100% correct. Any other country funding every side to the extent they do would be called out. Can you imagine if 9/10 national-level politicians were funded by China?

Heck, they might be, I don't know. But it's insane, and bleeding Americans dry to fund their insanity is ridiculous.
 
#26,121
#26,121
volgr said:
Israel has the most powerful lobby in DC. I think the US govt is as strong an ally to Israel as ever. The rest is political theater.
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There was a very public rebuke of Israeli leadership this summer. The message sent was received IMO.
 
#26,122
#26,122
EasternVol said:
That's not quite true. Many want the rapture ASAP because they're deluded enough to think they're among the chosen few that get into Heaven. They pray for it and lobby for aid to those they think will hasten it and vote for politicians who tell them what they want to hear.
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So? Some in this country want the only democracy in the ME to be removed off the map. They pray, lobby for it, and protest for it every day. Just vote for the opposing politician they want.
 
#26,124
#26,124
RDU VOL#14 said:
What line of thinking does this fall under? I’m ok w/ this btw

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This is jargon that in the world of international diplomacy means something. It is threatening, but vague. It leaves room.

Trump would get out over his skis, as he has done so many times before, and I think it fair to say he is likely to make comments that he (and we) would later regret. The man has show himself to have no filter, no common sense, and no self-awareness more times than I can count.

He cares 10000 times more about sounding tough and what he thinks is presidential, but with no idea what he is getting us in to.
 
#26,125
#26,125
volgr said:
Political theater. Follow the money and actions, not the rhetorical sleight of hand.
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I am, we tried to negotiate a ceasefire deal.... Israel didn't even respond to it. Political theater or not there is friction and distrust between these administrations now.
 
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