Israel vs Palestinians

[norrislakevol]

Are they as much a bunch of terrorists as Israel's founding fathers?

Interesting take. If you look at it that way then every countries "founding fathers" are terrorists.

 

[EasternVol]

Interesting take. If you look at it that way then every countries "founding fathers" are terrorists.

Not close to every country's. But several, including Israel's.

 

[KB5252]

I have read that Syria shot at an Israeli tractor that was in the DMZ in 67 but I don't recall anything about them shelling Israeli positions before Israel attacked. Since Israel's attacks started the fighting it follows that Syria didn't start with shelling Israeli positions.

Israel attacked Egypt because they shut down shipping access to Israel again. Jordan and Syria joined Egypt and shelled from Golan because Egypt was getting their arse kicked.

 

[norrislakevol]

Not close to every country's. But several, including Israel's.

How about the U.S.?

 

[OrangeTsar]

And the minions unquestionly take their word for it. 'We don't want war but excuse us while we attack for a while.'

When you are literally surrounded by countries sworn to annihilate you; you can’t exactly wait around until they are ready to do so.
I think we need to take up a collection for you to actually go live in Israel for a year and let you see what it feels like to be waiting for and dreading yet another air raid incoming missle siren. Or wondering if the person about to pass you on the street is going to stab you. Or wondering if the car that just parked in front of the cafe where you are dining is about to detonate an explosive.

 

[NashVol11]

When you are literally surrounded by countries sworn to annihilate you; you can’t exactly wait around until they are ready to do so.
I think we need to take up a collection for you to actually go live in Israel for a year and let you see what it feels like to be waiting for and dreading yet another air raid incoming missle siren. Or wondering if the person about to pass you on the street is going to stab you. Or wondering if the car that just parked in front of the cafe where you are dining is about to detonate an explosive.

You should probably spend some time there if you think people in places like Tel Aviv are the ones living in constant fear as opposed to the people Israel is killing

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Are they as much a bunch of terrorists as Israel's founding fathers?

Israels founding fathers were a couple thousand years ago. Which ones exactly do you think are terrorists? I dont remember any terrorists in the Bible/Torah

 

[n_huffhines]

Israels founding fathers were a couple thousand years ago. Which ones exactly do you think are terrorists? I dont remember any terrorists in the Bible/Torah

Israel was founded in 1947.

This would be like Americans getting conquered and moving out. The next guys getting conquered and moving out. Then Native Americans coming back with the help of the western world and kicking out the people who were living under the rule of the last guys (and had lived there ~1500 years), establishing a country, and claiming it was founded thousands of years ago. There was no state of Israel. It's just a region that Jews (and others) used to inhabit. The big difference is the Native Americans were the only people here that we know of. Jews were not the first in the region now known as Israel.

 

[Orangeslice13]

You should probably spend some time there if you think people in places like Tel Aviv are the ones living in constant fear as opposed to the people Israel is killing

I’ve been there.
In Gaza, in Tel Aviv.
The threat is real. There’s very little difference in either place.
They’re just used too it, as crazy as that sounds

 

[Orangeslice13]

Israel was founded in 1947.

This would be like Americans getting conquered and moving out. The next guys getting conquered and moving out. Then Native Americans come back with the help of the western world and kicking out the people who were living under the rule of the last guys (and had lived there ~1500 years), establishing a country, and claiming it was founded thousands of years ago.

I can trace Jewish ancestors on the land in Israel with documentation back to the 1700s. The government was formed in the 1940s. But we were there already.

 

[n_huffhines]

You know, just a few weeks after Israel opened its defensive military action against Hamas, I started seeing unsubstantiated claims of “50,000 civilians killed”.
Now over a year later, I am still seeing claims of “50,000 civilians killed”. So I guess we can safely assume that Israel has killed zero civilians in the past year?

What are you talking about? Link? I assume if it's a source that overdoes it with the estimation, their number has grown. More responsible reporting would maybe catch up to them at some point, but that doesn't mean 0 kills in the last year. And I've yet to see a report anywhere that claims 50,000.

 

[EasternVol]

How about the U.S.?

Treasonous but not terroristic.

 

[EasternVol]

When you are literally surrounded by countries sworn to annihilate you; you can’t exactly wait around until they are ready to do so.
I think we need to take up a collection for you to actually go live in Israel for a year and let you see what it feels like to be waiting for and dreading yet another air raid incoming missle siren. Or wondering if the person about to pass you on the street is going to stab you. Or wondering if the car that just parked in front of the cafe where you are dining is about to detonate an explosive.

Uh huh. None of which changes the point that is the contradiction of Israel saying they don't want war while starting war.

 

[EasternVol]

Israels founding fathers were a couple thousand years ago. Which ones exactly do you think are terrorists? I dont remember any terrorists in the Bible/Torah

Israel was founded in 1948, although I'm sure you knew that.

 

[Ritzwatch]

Israel was founded in 1948, although I'm sure you knew that.

1948?

Help me out, was that before or after the founding of Palestine?

 

[n_huffhines]

1948?

Help me out, was that before or after the founding of Palestine?

As Americans who kicked the existing population off their land, of course many of us think it's OK to waltz in and start a country where people were already living.

 

[Godfatha]

As Americans who kicked the existing population off their land, of course many of us think it's OK to waltz in and start a country where people were already living.

There's never been a historic nation of Palestine. That section of the world has lived under the rule of one empire or another for thousands of years.

*Edit - didn't mean to quote you huff

 

[Ritzwatch]

As Americans who kicked the existing population off their land,

Pretty sure you just described the arc of human history, not just American history

of course many of us think it's OK to waltz in and start a country where people were already living.

If there is to be a formerly recognized Palestinian state, are you suggesting it should be where people are not already living? Or should we just waltz in and start that country where people already live?

Israel was founded in 1948, although I'm sure you knew that.

1948?

Help me out, was that before or after the founding of Palestine?

As Americans who kicked the existing population off their land, of course many of us think it's OK to waltz in and start a country where people were already living.

It is noted that 1948 was before the founding of the State of Palestine, although I'm sure you knew that.

 

[LSU-SIU]

As Americans who kicked the existing population off their land, of course many of us think it's OK to waltz in and start a country where people were already living.

I would say it was mostly the English, French and Spainards before America even existed. The issue is, much of it was paid for as well, although there was some that was acquired by conquer.

Of course, we can pretend like the Indians weren't fighting and conquering either or taken from other people that history long forgot.

 

[EasternVol]

1948?

Help me out, was that before or after the founding of Palestine?

After, since Palestine was issuing passports well before then.

 

[EasternVol]

I would say it was mostly the English, French and Spainards before America even existed. The issue is, much of it was paid for as well, although there was some that was acquired by conquer.

Of course, we can pretend like the Indians weren't fighting and conquering either or taken from other people that history long forgot.

And much wasn't paid for. Other than the Atlantic Seaboard it was mainly Uncle Sam doing the invading and removals.
What happened before we got involved doesn't change the facts of our involvement.

 

[LSU-SIU]

And much wasn't paid for. Other than the Atlantic Seaboard it was mainly Uncle Sam doing the invading and removals.
What happened before we got involved doesn't change the facts of our involvement.

The whole Louisiana Purchase claimed by the French in the 1600s than ceded said area to the Spanish. The U.S. bought Louisiana in 1803. There has been land that was conquered which most likely has already been paid for, although the U.S. does setup of statutory law to correct. Matter of fact, there are processes setup today to handle claims.

Tribal Government, Enrollment and Claims | Indian Affairs

The Indians were taking it from other Indians, so the French, Spain, and England were paying Indians that took it from other people. That's life, nobody is hiding facts. The vast majority of it was paid for, the real issue is the Indians had no real concept of money, or land rights.

There was wrongs, but much of it was done before the United States existed although the U.S. government was cruel in some instances in the west which much of it has been monetarily remedied. If we're talking about "Americans" as settlers, possibly.... the Indians were toast a long time before the United States existed, in that context.

I for one am glad they have tried to make some of the wrongs right, but over time that becomes pretty tough... much of this was before what I would call "Americans" a thing. Of course, its kind of strange that all the Indians were fighting each other over the land and that is looked over in a vacuum.

 

[85SugarVol]

I’ve been there.
In Gaza, in Tel Aviv.
The threat is real. There’s very little difference in either place.
They’re just used too it, as crazy as that sounds

I wonder which is safer for the Minority

 

[Ritzwatch]

After, since Palestine was issuing passports well before then.

Well, at least they have no trouble getting home, they have passports!

Glad we have solved the issues in the Middle East! Now if only we can get Ukraine to get passports, maybe we can end their war as well!

 

[EasternVol]

The whole Louisiana Purchase claimed by the French in the 1600s than ceded said area to the Spanish. The U.S. bought Louisiana in 1803. There has been land that was conquered which most likely has already been paid for, although the U.S. does setup of statutory law to correct. Matter of fact, there are processes setup today to hand claims.

The Indians were taking it from other Indians, so the French, Spain, and England were paying Indians that took it from other people. That's life, nobody is hiding facts. The vast majority of it was paid for, the issue is the Indians had no real concept of money, or land rights.

There was wrongs, but much of it was done before the United States existed. If we're talking about "Americans" as settlers, possibly.

Do you have the Spanish and French claims to the territory reversed? At any rate when we bought it, it was inhabited, and displacement of the inhabitants was done by the US.