Israel vs Palestinians

[scvolfan7]

So, you come up with your uniformed takes on your own. Glad you are in medicine.

Been following geopolitics since I was in third grade bubba

 

[NCFisher]

Israel doesn’t need billions of our tax dollars to kill Palestinians. They’re a wealthy nation with plenty of resources. If Israel and Palestine can’t find peace, that’s their problem. Leave America’s tax dollars out of it.

Yeah, got it the first time, but why the one sided rhetoric "to kill Palestinians"? If you're against aid generally, that's easily stated.

 

[Y9 Vol]

Been following geopolitics since I was in third grade bubba

Not very well evidently

 

[scvolfan7]

Not very well evidently

Quite well. Hence why I don’t just buy Israeli propaganda like a pleb

 

[NCFisher]

Again, you’re too dumb to look at it from both sides. Israelis kill far more people (mainly women and children) than the Palestinians do. Neither is right but Israel is far more guilty than the Palestinians and if that isn’t obvious then you’re brainwashed and beyond help

And why is that? Because the fascist government of Hamas hides amongst "women and children" while launching its attacks, Israel is to ignore it? That's saying because you bought the property next door and I wanted it, I can start lobbing grenades into your yard and you just have to take it because I have a wife and kids.

The Arabs who call themselves Palestinians have been given numerous opportunities to coexist. The smart ones and become Israeli citizens and enjoy rights and privileges not afforded them in surrounding Arab countries. Instead, they double-down on the termination of Israel from Arafat (and before) on down the line.

 

[Volatility]

Yeah, got it the first time, but why the one sided rhetoric "to kill Palestinians"? If you're against aid generally, that's easily stated.

I don’t think you did, I’ve stated multiple times we shouldn’t be handing out our tax dollars to foreign nations.

 

[Orangeburst]

Not very well evidently

Who references "since third grade"..for anything? LOL

 

[Orangeburst]

Myths & Facts: Online Exclusives (jewishvirtuallibrary.org)

Interesting discussion of many issues...if one inclined.

 

[scvolfan7]

And why is that? Because the fascist government of Hamas hides amongst "women and children" while launching its attacks, Israel is to ignore it? That's saying because you bought the property next door and I wanted it, I can start lobbing grenades into your yard and you just have to take it because I have a wife and kids.

The Arabs who call themselves Palestinians have been given numerous opportunities to coexist. The smart ones and become Israeli citizens and enjoy rights and privileges not afforded them in surrounding Arab countries. Instead, they double-down on the termination of Israel from Arafat (and before) on down the line.

Israel created Hamas so they only have themselves to blame.

I admire the Palestinians who resist Israeli occupation. Would you roll over and join China if they started occupying the US? Hell no

 

[NCFisher]

I don’t think you did, I’ve stated multiple times we shouldn’t be handing out our tax dollars to foreign nations.

I don't know what you've stated in replies to others, but this is the first reply to me without Israeli invective, which is why I originally posted.

 

[Volatility]

I don't know what you've stated in replies to others, but this is the first reply to me without Israeli invective, which is why I originally posted.

My stance is basically the last sentence in @Orangeslice13 ‘spost.

I say we stop paying Israel not to destroy their neighbors and let them turn the area around them into a parking lot.
Let’s stop giving everyone money while we’re at it

 

[VolStrom]

Israel created Hamas so they only have themselves to blame.

I admire the Palestinians who resist Israeli occupation. Would you roll over and join China if they started occupying the US? Hell no

If this country becomes anymore divided and pussyfied you might get to see it in your generation.

 

[Y9 Vol]

Who references "since third grade"..for anything? LOL

Someone trying to validate his/her intelligence.

 

[RikidyBones]

Who references "since third grade"..for anything? LOL

No experience, no perspective... Yeah the convo is over Lmao

 

[Y9 Vol]

Myths & Facts: Online Exclusives (jewishvirtuallibrary.org)

Interesting discussion of many issues...if one inclined.

IBF...”one sided article written by a Jew”.

 

[MAD]

IBF...”one sided article written by a Jew”.

Anti-Semitic

 

[NCFisher]

Israel created Hamas so they only have themselves to blame.

I admire the Palestinians who resist Israeli occupation. Would you roll over and join China if they started occupying the US? Hell no

I may love my dog but if he goes rabid, I have to put him down.

The land was Turkish land when Jews began purchasing tracts in the 1800s. That the resident lessee Arabs didn't like the land being sold to those with other uses for it is their problem. Further, land taken in occupation due to multiple Arabs countries attempting to destroy the Israelis - multiple times - is also their problem.

I'll bring your analogy closer to home; if Canada were lobbing rockets into the U.S., we'd push them into the Arctic. The problem for the mostly Jordanian Arabs is themselves, and the successive generations of Intifada-bent intellectual inbreeding. I find nothing admirable about them except for those who do desire peace and abandonment of "death to Israel" but are violently coerced by Hamas, PLO, and Fatah. The rest are an obsessive death cult.

 

[Orangeburst]

MYTH
Palestinians believe in nonviolence and a two-state solution.

FACT
The obstacle to peace between Jews and Palestinians has been consistent for a century – the unwillingness of the Palestinians to accept the existence of a Jewish state. Hence, it is not surprising the Palestinians condemn Arab and Muslim states for establishing relations with Israel.

Their hostility is not just directed toward their neighbors; Palestinian leaders also object to their own people engaging with Israelis. A military court in the Gaza Strip, for example, convicted three Palestinian peace activists in 2020 of “weakening revolutionary spirit” because they organized a video call with Israelis (Adam Rasgon, “Gaza Court Convicts Peace Activists for Video Call With Israelis,” New York Times, October 26, 2020).

Supporters of the Palestinians in the United States and elsewhere, including elected officials and peace activists, who claim Palestinians believe in nonviolence and a two-state solution have always been out of touch with the views of the people they claim to represent. This is evident in surveys published by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PSR) and the Washington Institute (WINEP).

In a clear rebuke to the two-state advocates, the September 2020 PSR poll found that by a 58%-39% margin Palestinians oppose a two-state solution and 62% do not believe it is viable today.

The WINEP poll conducted at the beginning of 2020 reported that most Palestinians (60%) believe their top national priority should be “regaining all of historical Palestine for the Palestinians, from the river to the sea.” Just three years ago, only 37% held this view. In 2017, 41% supported a two-state solution; today, only 25% of Palestinians do.

Unlike Israelis who have mobilized hundreds of thousands of people to demonstrate for peace, Palestinians only organize to protest and riot. They have never had anything analogous to the Israeli Peace Now movement. Their preference for violence is reflected in the PSR poll which reported that 41% of Palestinians believe “armed action” is “the best means of ending the occupation.” Only 24% preferred negotiations and 26% “peaceful popular resistance.”

Asked a different way about what to do about relations with Israel, 36% favored waging “an armed struggle against the Israeli occupation.” Only 27% preferred reaching a peace agreement with Israel; 18% said Palestinians should “wage an unarmed struggle against the Israeli occupation.” When asked by WINEP if they should oppose the annexation of any West Bank territory by force if necessary, 64% agreed.

Is it any wonder that Israelis believe they have no partner for peace?

 

[Orangeburst]

MYTH
Palestinian leaders oppose normalization with Israel.

FACT
It should come as no surprise that one of the Palestinian Authority’s most notorious liars would also be its biggest hypocrite.

Often feted as a “moderate” because he has been the PA’s chief peace negotiator, Saeb Erekat, secretary general of the Executive Committee of the PLO, is among those most responsible for the Palestinians’ failure to achieve independence. When he is not disseminating “big lies” about Israel, he speaks the truth about his own views: “I will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state” (Transcript: Saeb Erekat,” Al Jazeera, (April 2, 2014).

 

[Orangeburst]

MYTH
If Israel ends the "occupation," there will be peace.

FACT
The mantra of the Palestinians and their supporters since 1967 has been, “End the occupation.” The assumption underlying this slogan is that peace will follow the end of Israel’s “occupation.” The equally popular slogan among critics of Israeli policy has been that it should “trade land for peace.” Again, the premise being that it is simply Israel’s presence on land claimed by the Palestinians that is the impediment to peace.

The experience in Gaza offered a stark case study of the disingenuousness of these slogans. If the Palestinians’ fervent desire were really to end Israeli control over their lives, they would have cheered Israel’s plan to evacuate the Gaza Strip and done everything possible to make it a success. Instead, they denounced disengagement. Israel still withdrew from every inch of Gaza—not a single Israeli soldier or civilian remains—at great emotional and financial cost.

And what has the end of “the occupation” brought Israel? Has Israel received peace in exchange for the land?

No.

To the contrary, the Palestinian answer to meeting their demands has been years of rocket fire, terrorist attacks and, since March 2018, a weekly demonstration of violence that has included the destruction of 8,000 acres of nature reserves, ‎forest ‎‎and ‎‎‎agricultural land. Terror and incitement have also continued unabated from the West Bank preempting any possibility that Israelis would support additional territorial concessions. Rather than “end the occupation,” Palestinian actions have forced Israel to maintain a presence to ensure the safety of its citizens.

Slogans are good for bumper stickers, but they are irrelevant to the future of Israel and its neighbors. Israelis have repeatedly shown a desire for peace, and a willingness to make painful sacrifices, but nothing they do will end the conflict. Peace will be possible only when the Palestinians demonstrate through their actions a willingness to coexist in a state beside Israel. Since 2008, their leaders have not even agreed to face-to-face talks with Israel’s prime minister.

The responsibility for this escalation in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict rests with the Palestinians who have yet again turned their backs on peace. Rather than take the withdrawal of Israel from Gaza as an opportunity to build a future for their children, they instead refused to relinquish their embrace of a culture of hate and death.
—Editorial, Chicago Sun Times, (June 27, 2006)

 

[Orangeburst]

MYTH
Palestinians are indigenous to the area previously known as Palestine.

FACT
In an effort to prove they are indigenous, and were in the land before the Jews, Palestinians often speciously claim to be related to the Canaanites. There is no evidence for this claim. The Arabs are not native to “Palestine”; they are aboriginal to Arabia.

In testimony before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, the Palestinian Arab delegation claimed a connection to Palestine of more than one thousand years, dating back no further than the conquest of Muhammad’s followers in the seventh century. Most of the people who now call themselves Palestinians are descendants of Arabs who came to Palestine much more recently because of World War I, famine, disease, expulsion by the Turks and the attraction of the social and economic conditions created by the Jewish community.

In July 1921, Hasan Shukri, the mayor of Haifa and president of the Muslim National Associations, sent a telegram to the British government in response to a delegation of Palestinians that went to London to prevent the implementation of the Balfour Declaration. Shukri wrote:

We are certain that without Jewish immigration and financial assistance there will be no future development of our country as may be judged from the fact that the towns inhabited in part by Jews such as Jerusalem, Jaffa, Haifa, and Tiberias are making steady progress while Nablus, Acre, and Nazareth where no Jews reside are steadily declining (Hillel Cohen, Army of Shadows, Berkeley: University of California Press, 2008, p. 15).
In 1915, approximately 590,000 Muslim and Christian Arabs lived in Palestine. According to the 1922 census, that number increased to 643,000. During the British mandate, Jewish immigration was restricted by quotas while Arabs faced no impediments. Hence, the Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II, while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000 – 120 percent (Dov Friedlander and Calvin Goldscheider, The Population of Israel, NY: Columbia Press, 1979, p. 30; Arieh Avneri, The Claim of Dispossession, (Tel Aviv: Hidekel Press, 1984, p. 254).

This rapid growth of the Arab population was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible (Moshe Aumann, “Land Ownership in Palestine 1880–1948,” in Michael Curtis, et al., The Palestinians, New Brunswick, NJ: Transaction Books, 1975, p. 38).

The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945, and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943 (Avneri, p. 264; Aharon Cohen, Israel and the Arab World, NY: Funk and Wagnalls, 1970, p. 60).

The Arab population increased the most in cities where large Jewish populations had created new economic opportunities. From 1922– 1947, the non- Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem, and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin, and 37 percent in Bethlehem (Avneri, pp. 254–55).

The Palestinians can indeed claim a connection to the area of Palestine, but they are not indigenous, and their presence does not predate that of the Jewish people who can trace their history in the land back more than 3,000 years.

 

[Carl Pickens]

Going to Israel itself isn’t the problem. The problem was that he left his constituents in the dust while they were suffering. He’s treating a foreign country better than the people who voted him in. What part of that do you not understand?

Answer this....... wtf was he supposed to do during the winter storm?

 

[Orangeburst]

The map that was posted..

MYTH
Obama was rightly angered by the State Department map of the West Bank.

FACT
In the July 9, 2018, issue of The New Yorker, Adam Entous argued that President Barack Obama decided to abstain on a U.N. Security Council resolution condemning settlements after seeing a State Department map showing that most of the West Bank was off limits to Palestinian development and filled with Jewish settlements and outposts (“The Maps of Israeli Settlements That Shocked Barack Obama”). This appears to be an example of how State Department Arabists sought to manipulate the president, as the map simply reflected the agreements reached by Israelis and Palestinians in the Oslo Accords that have been common knowledge for the last 23 years.

According to Entous, a senior State Department official named Frank Lowenstein discovered a map he had never seen before, which was surprising given that similar maps have been published for years. It was even more bizarre to read that “Lowenstein’s team” had to “do the math” to figure out that Israel controlled 60 percent of the West Bank when this was precisely the area agreed to in the Oslo negotiations referred to as Area C. This territory consists mainly of uninhabited desert, scattered Israeli settlements and a handful of settlement blocs. The other areas on the map Lowenstein found so scandalous were areas A and B. Israel withdrew completely from area A and ceded complete control over all civilian administration to the Palestinian Authority (PA). Area B encompasses Arab towns and villages where the PA has full civilian authority but shares security responsibility with Israel.

The State Department apparently added the notation regarding non-Jews outnumbering Jews between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. It is unclear where the data comes from, but it is most likely from the PA whose numbers are known to be exaggerated. There has not been an impartial census conducted in the West Bank or Gaza, but Israel’s leading demographer, Sergio DellaPergola, has more recent data which estimates that roughly 6.9 million Jews live in Israel and the disputed territories compared to 6.5 million Arabs (Khaled Abu Toameh, “Palestinian census: 4.7 million in West Bank and Gaza Strip,” Times of Israel, March 28, 2018).

Interestingly, while the State Department was apparently alarmed that 385,900 settlers were living in Area C and Palestinian development there was limited (according to its “Territory Breakdown” map), there is no mention of the Palestinian population. If you believe the latest Palestinian data, Obama might have been shocked to learn the number of Palestinians (393,163) exceeds the Jewish population (Abu Toameh).

By distorting the data in a variety of maps, State Department officials convinced Obama that Israel was greatly expanding settlements to foreclose a two-state solution. Michael Koplow noted, however, that “the settlement growth taking place is overwhelmingly west of the security barrier and in the blocs that will be retained by Israel in a final agreement….In other words, the acceleration of the settler population is happening, but it is happening in the places that present the smallest problem for a two-state solution” (Michael J. Koplow, “About Those State Department Maps,” Israel Policy Forum, July 12, 2018).

 

[volinsd]

I’m native Powhatan. I’d like your property. As a show of remorse from your people. Wa do.

People said my old plant was built on powhatan indian burial ground. Whenever weird stuff happened we would blame the ghost of chief powhatan. Powhatan rd. In NC

 

[Y9 Vol]

Answer this....... wtf was he supposed to do during the winter storm?

Shhh...ignorant people are all about optics.