Israel vs Palestinians

[Vol8188]

Louder answered you pretty well.

He didn’t. No response of his even mentioned the word agency.

Why do they not have agency?

 

[EasternVol]

When you’re at war, it’s understood people are going to try to kill you. If you surround yourself with your family during a war, you’re the one at fault and your wife, as well.

By that token, which is BS, the Israeli civilians who were victims on 7 October had agency since they had moved into a conflict zone.

 

[LouderVol]

Who said 30k Hamas have been killed?

all those who have conveniently linked the Palestinians together with Hamas. all those excusing their deaths because they were in the way, were somewhere Israel thought they shouldn't be, for being somewhere Israel told them to be, were near an attack, might have at one time cheered for Hamas attacks, and depending on what the current hospital narrative is for daring to be injured and required medical attention at a location some Hamas members were also being treated. for being press, for being aide workers, for carrying supplies. for somehow not voting on something that happened before they were born.

Instead of just admitting that its war and civilians are going to die, there has been a constant litany of excuses for Israel trying to make every attack a "valid target" and not a civilian one. Even when attacks have been wrong from Israel from the first reporting, like the hit on the cooks, there have been plenty trying to justify it, instead of just owning up and saying Israel messed up on that one.

 

[Vol8188]

“Bring to war” continues to make no sense because it’s where they live, as has been pointed out to you already

If you start a war, and then go home to your family….you are the one who brought the danger to your family. The same as if I brought my family to war.

 

[Vol8188]

By that token, which is BS, the Israeli civilians who were victims on 7 October had agency since they had moved into a conflict zone.

They had not moved into a conflict zone. These weren’t settlements. There was no war. If anything it was a time of relative peace. Your comparison doesn’t work here.

 

[EasternVol]

He didn’t. No response of his even mentioned the word agency.

Why do they not have agency?

He did, but you're too thick or dishonest to see or admit it.

 

[LouderVol]

When you’re at war, it’s understood people are going to try to kill you. If you surround yourself with your family during a war, you’re the one at fault and your wife, as well.

but not the Israelis.....

seems like the Israeli's are now responsible for those 2700 deaths on 10/7. they have been at war with Hamas for a long time. clearly they should have moved their own people out of the way.

thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Vol8188]

He did, but you're too thick or dishonest to see or admit it.

lol back to your same tired, evasive routine…it’s perfectly possible I missed something. Be specific….what?

 

[EasternVol]

They had not moved into a conflict zone. These weren’t settlements. There was no war. If anything it was a time of relative peace. Your comparison doesn’t work here.

Wrong on all counts.

 

[EasternVol]

lol back to your same tired, evasive routine…it’s perfectly possible I missed something. Be specific….what?

Reread his post.

 

[Vol8188]

but not the Israelis.....

seems like the Israeli's are now responsible for those 2700 deaths on 10/7. they have been at war with Hamas for a long time. clearly they should have moved their own people out of the way.

thanks for clearing that up.

Except they weren’t at war…you don’t get to go from home to home murdering thousands of civilians and then expect to go home and sleep safely with your family.

 

[Vol8188]

Wrong on all counts.

Lmfao okay. Start here. Show me that these were “settlers”

 

[Vol8188]

Reread his post.

He has multiple responses to me and 0 of them use the term agency

 

[LouderVol]

have you looked at the Israeli numbers? They seem very reasonable, not “1 ounce”.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-12000-hamas-fighters-killed-in-gaza-war-double-the-terror-groups-claim/

12k? more than 1/3 of all deaths? when expected war time civilian deaths is 10x the number of fighters across all of history? and ignoring that all of this fighting is across very densely populated areas, where one would expect civilian losses to be even higher than a typical war which would include lots of open areas.

I don't consider their numbers reasonable, at all.

according to the IDF, they have conducted 31k strikes, and killed 12k Hamas. If you are missing on 2/3 of your strikes, at least, you are going to hit plenty of civilians. and even on those that hit a Hamas target have taken out plenty of collateral civilians.

 

[EasternVol]

Lmfao okay. Start here. Show me that these were “settlers”

Show they weren't. How and when were those kibbutzes established?

 

[Vol8188]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-12000-hamas-fighters-killed-in-gaza-war-double-the-terror-groups-claim/

12k? more than 1/3 of all deaths? when expected war time civilian deaths is 10x the number of fighters across all of history? and ignoring that all of this fighting is across very densely populated areas, where one would expect civilian losses to be even higher than a typical war which would include lots of open areas.

I don't consider their numbers reasonable, at all.

according to the IDF, they have conducted 31k strikes, and killed 12k Hamas. If you are missing on 2/3 of your strikes, at least, you are going to hit plenty of civilians. and even on those that hit a Hamas target have taken out plenty of collateral civilians.

Yes, 12k out of roughly 30k is far more believable than the opposite claim of 0 out of 30k. An equally unreasomable claim would be 29k/30, which isn’t what they’re saying.

Could it be wrong? Sure, it’s an estimate. But you’re blatantly lying if you try to claim it’s equally unlikely as the 0/30 claim by Hamas.

And if you want more accurate data, whose fault is that? Why is it hard to tell who is Hamas and who isn’t? That’s an easy answer

 

[Vol8188]

Show they weren't. How and when were those kibbutzes established?

Lmfao this is why you’re a joke. Evade, evade, evade some more and then blame everyone else

 

[Orangeslice13]

People care because it's high visibility and we're paying to level neighborhoods with the residents inside, and other assorted dirty work.

So your basic virtue signaling

And why is it so high profile when it’s minor compared to so many other things?

Rhetorical question. Everyone knows why.

Edit: your as in general people do it. Not you specifically.
Not accusing you of virtue signaling.

 

[EasternVol]

Lmfao this is why you’re a joke. Evade, evade, evade some more and then blame everyone else

You have no answer so you play copycat and start throwing insults. That's one reason you're one of the, if not the, least credible poster on the board.

 

[EasternVol]

So your basic virtue signaling

And why is it so high profile when it’s minor compared to so many other things?

Rhetorical question. Everyone knows why.

Edit: your as in general people do it. Not you specifically.
Not accusing you of virtue signaling.

Do we have another recent case of us funding 25K+ civilian fatalities in six months?

 

[LouderVol]

If I brought my family to a war knowing people were trying to kill me and my family died, that’s on me.

It’s so weird how far you guys go to deny Palestinians have agency.

Would you bring your family to war with you?

irrelevant. the war came to them. This is like the Patriot. one member of the family goes to war, comes back, and then the whole place is burned down. that is going to piss people off, and justify a whole new generation of violence.

 

[LouderVol]

They had not moved into a conflict zone. These weren’t settlements. There was no war. If anything it was a time of relative peace. Your comparison doesn’t work here.

there was no pre 10/7 conflict between Israel and Hamas?

Israel wasn't at a constant war footing, with required military service, armed soldiers everywhere, and relying on active defenses for daily life?

seems like they thought they were at war this whole time.

 

[LouderVol]

Yes, 12k out of roughly 30k is far more believable than the opposite claim of 0 out of 30k. An equally unreasomable claim would be 29k/30, which isn’t what they’re saying.

Could it be wrong? Sure, it’s an estimate. But you’re blatantly lying if you try to claim it’s equally unlikely as the 0/30 claim by Hamas.

And if you want more accurate data, whose fault is that? Why is it hard to tell who is Hamas and who isn’t? That’s an easy answer

where did anyone say it was 0? thats a straw man argument.

30k dead civilians is a standalone number. it doesn't require, specify, or disallow for other deaths amongst the non-civilian population.

 

[Vol8188]

where did anyone say it was 0? thats a straw man argument.

30k dead civilians is a standalone number. it doesn't require, specify, or disallow for other deaths amongst the non-civilian population.

Never said anyone said it was 0. Only that you said their number was equally as unreasonable as the hamas number. It’s not. 12/30 is possible. 0/30 or 30/30 are not realistic options.

It’s like dealing with confidence intervals. Idk the exact number, but I can tell you it’s not 0% it’s not 100%. So yes, 12/30 is reasonable and possible

You never answered the question…why is it so hard to know the number? Whose fault is that? You seem to dismiss the most important part here

 

[Vol8188]

irrelevant. the war came to them. This is like the Patriot. one member of the family goes to war, comes back, and then the whole place is burned down. that is going to piss people off, and justify a whole new generation of violence.

lol “came to them”? Denying agency again. The war “was brought to them”….by their husbands. If you put your family at risk, you have responsibility for that. So does your spouse given she had to have known the risk in this scenario.

Why do you deny they have agency