Israel vs Palestinians

#22,551
#22,551
EasternVol said:
You: There are no Armenian Palestinians
Me: Do your homework
You: There aren't many. And Azerbaijan is trying to genocide Armenia!
Me: That's more than zero. And no they're not.
You: You never read history! I know lots of names and dates!
I have read quite a bit of history but not with the closed minded bias you exhibit, that's for sure.
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Show me how Azerbaijan is not engaging in a genocide right now in Nagorno-Karabakh?

EDIT:

Added video about the very topic if you are actual interested. I doubt you are and you are probably just interested in arguing.

Regarding the Armenian very small minority, they immigrated to Israel/Palestine (probably refugees from conflict above). That is such a small dropping that I stick with my comment above.

What you are doing is saying someone brought 2-3 fire ants and dumped into a brown ant colony and are now trying to claim that brown ant colony is a fire ant colony.

What in my dialogue is incorrect? There were different people spread throughout the Middle East prior to Islam and now it is mostly Arabs with small minorities of the people cited. I think it is VERY COMPELLING DATA as it shows what Islam is capable of once they get the majority in your nation. To me, Islam is just as much a threat as Nazism or the Communist Soviets back in the day.
 
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#22,552
#22,552
EasternVol said:
Older generations got only one side of the story from the American MSM and government, which were the only available information sources for most folks. Today the internet and better travel opportunities make it much easier to get a more accurate view of the situation, which doesn't work to Israel's favor.
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Twitter based op-eds, considered as other sources are not more accurate, which have been one of the main sources for information in this thread.

Just because there are more options for news these days, many of them are reporting from an extremely biased point of view.
 
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#22,553
#22,553
volbound1700 said:
Show me how Azerbaijan is not engaging in a genocide right now in Nagorno-Karabakh?

Regarding the Armenian very small minority, they immigrated to Israel/Palestine (probably refugees from conflict above). That is such a small dropping that I stick with my comment above.

What you are doing is saying someone brought 2-3 fire ants and dumped into a brown ant colony and are now trying to claim that brown ant colony is a fire ant colony.

What in my dialogue is incorrect? There were different people spread throughout the Middle East prior to Islam and now it is mostly Arabs with small minorities of the people cited. I think it is VERY COMPELLING DATA as it shows what Islam is capable of once they get the majority in your nation. To me, Islam is just as much a threat as Nazism or the Communist Soviets back in the day.
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- I see no evidence that Azerbaijan is engaging in genocide. If you insist that they are then provide some evidence.
- Didn't they end up in Palestine through their religious connection to the Holy Land? It seems like someone well versed in history should know that.
- No, I was saying that there's a long and storied history of Christianity in Palestine. You said "I don't see how people could defend Palestinians when they crapped all over our ancestors in the Middle Ages slaughtering Christians throughout the Middle East in the name of Islam and Jihad and trying to attack Europe." I was pointing out that Palestinians were part of those Christians in the Middle East. I'll ask now when Palestinians tried to attack Europe.
- I suppose that by people you mean peoples. Yes peoples have fallen and some were dispersed as new powers have risen. That's not at all unique to the rise of Islamic states. It happened also with the rise of Judaism, Christianity, other religions and dynasties around the world.
 
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#22,554
#22,554
EasternVol said:
- I see no evidence that Azerbaijan is engaging in genocide. If you insist that they are then provide some evidence.
- Didn't they end up in Palestine through their religious connection to the Holy Land? It seems like someone well versed in history should know that.
- No, I was saying that there's a long and storied history of Christianity in Palestine. You said "I don't see how people could defend Palestinians when they crapped all over our ancestors in the Middle Ages slaughtering Christians throughout the Middle East in the name of Islam and Jihad and trying to attack Europe." I was pointing out that Palestinians were part of those Christians in the Middle East. I'll ask now when Palestinians tried to attack Europe.
- I suppose that by people you mean peoples. Yes peoples have fallen and some were dispersed as new powers have risen. That's not at all unique to the rise of Islamic states. It happened also with the rise of Judaism, Christianity, other religions and dynasties around the world.
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1. You are NOT paying attention then or reading articles on it. It is all over the place.
2. I don't know why they ended up there but to equate that Israel is attacking Armenians because 5000 Armenians moved into the area is silly and you know it. Heck, that is like saying the USA was attacking Koreans when we bombed Japan in 1945 (both Atomic or not) because there were Koreans likely in that city.
3. Modern Palestinians are over 90% Arab Muslims and the nations defending them and saying "Death to Israel" or "Death to America" are primarily tied to Islam and Islamic terrorist groups.
4. The difference is in the actual texts and beliefs of the groups though. The others have somewhat moved on (no one is perfect). Another issue is this entire "right or wrong" mentality just doesn't work. I could care less if my people are the bad guys or not because I want my people to survive. Whether we admit it or not, we are not that far removed (even today) from nature and it is about survival sometimes. It isn't "right vs. wrong" but "us vs them". Part of the reason the USA was so successful at wars prior to 1945 and has stunk it up so bad after 1945 is that mentality. Do you think the average American cared about who was in the right or wrong when we went to war with the Mexicans in 1840s? Civil War in 1860s? Spanish-American War in 1890s? WW1? WW2? No. We wanted to win because we were Americans. This is what drives me up the wall about modern culture. Defend our COUNTRY for once because it is OUR COUNTRY. Stop arguing for people that hate us.
 
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#22,555
#22,555
Also don't get me wrong, I don't think the Jews are always 100% innocent either and frankly if there was no Arab/Muslim states and a bunch of Jewish States in the region, I would probably lean more towards the Palestinian cause.

As stated, it also doesn't help that I know so much about Islamic wars on Christians in the past and the desire by Islam for Global Jihad. I don't see an equivalent right now to that in Judaism.
 
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#22,556
#22,556
volbound1700 said:
1. You are NOT paying attention then or reading articles on it. It is all over the place.
2. I don't know why they ended up there but to equate that Israel is attacking Armenians because 5000 Armenians moved into the area is silly and you know it. Heck, that is like saying the USA was attacking Koreans when we bombed Japan in 1945 (both Atomic or not) because there were Koreans likely in that city.
3. Modern Palestinians are over 90% Arab Muslims and the nations defending them and saying "Death to Israel" or "Death to America" are primarily tied to Islam and Islamic terrorist groups.
4. The difference is in the actual texts and beliefs of the groups though. The others have somewhat moved on (no one is perfect). Another issue is this entire "right or wrong" mentality just doesn't work. I could care less if my people are the bad guys or not because I want my people to survive. Whether we admit it or not, we are not that far removed (even today) from nature and it is about survival sometimes. It isn't "right vs. wrong" but "us vs them". Part of the reason the USA was so successful at wars prior to 1945 and has stunk it up so bad after 1945 is that mentality. Do you think the average American cared about who was in the right or wrong when we went to war with the Mexicans in 1840s? Civil War in 1860s? Spanish-American War in 1890s? WW1? WW2? No. We wanted to win because we were Americans. This is what drives me up the wall about modern culture. Defend our COUNTRY for once because it is OUR COUNTRY. Stop arguing for people that hate us.
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1. Still no evidence from you. If you think there's genocide happening then present some evidence.
2. You've completely mixed up the argument.
3. You've been going to goalpost moving school.
4. That's an irrational argument. By that logic the Mongols were correct to follow Genghis Khan's directives, the Chinese Mao's, the Russians Stalin's etc. People considering the morality of their government's actions is a good thing.
 
#22,557
#22,557
turbovol said:
The fact is that Israel has been terrorizing Palestinians in ways large and small for some 60 years--stealing their land, stealing their homes,
stealing their water, killing people arbitrarily, overreacting to any violent acts of resistance with grossly disproportionate violence of their own--as we've seen with Gaza. And the U.S.--and in particular the usual craven U.S. politicians--has been complicit in Israel's oppression of the Pals. Worse, we've in many way let Israel lead US around by the nose. We've seldom done anything substantive to stop the decades-long building of Israeli settlements on stolen Palestinian land--our typical response being a weak diplomatic "tsk-tsk"---"we really wish you'd stop doing it."

The Israeli right wing pays no attention to our wishes--and then we keep selling Israel more weaponry and providing billions in other annual aid. And of course America's religious zanies all support Israel, and thus their GOP congressional strongly do the same. The U.S. has done nothing to effect a settlement for decades--and thus the conflict has dragged on and on, the Israelis stealing more and more land: That is their intention. And they've been playing Americans with their BS propaganda for decades as well. The Hamas attack on Israelis completely plays into the long Israeli propaganda narrative--that Pals are the problem.

The situation has long been the equivalent of how Americans treated slaves and their descendants---oppressing them, depriving them of rights and freedoms, discriminating against them, and then when the oppressed rise up and resist, the oppressors point at the oppressed and scream, "See! Look at what savages they are. They want to hurt us"---and use that transparent excuse to stomp on the other side.

It's good to see American students say, "enough."
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I’ve always wanted to visit a Synagogue in Israel but they are so touristy , can you help me find the service times for the one in Gaza ?
 
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#22,558
#22,558
EasternVol said:
1. Still no evidence from you. If you think there's genocide happening then present some evidence.
2. You've completely mixed up the argument.
3. You've been going to goalpost moving school.
4. That's an irrational argument. By that logic the Mongols were correct to follow Genghis Khan's directives, the Chinese Mao's, the Russians Stalin's etc. People considering the morality of their government's actions is a good thing.
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Regarding #1 - I posted a video already but there is this website called "Google" and you can just enter a search for it and find out yourself.

#2 - Not really. You acted like there was this significant Armenian-Palestinian minority and that Israel was engaging Christians in its action. Israel went out of the way in the 1980s to defend Christians from Hezbollah in Lebanon. Are they perfect? No. Are they pro-Christian? No. However, as pointed out in post # 22,555; I feel that Israel is the side that is most likely to leave us alone in the scheme of things.

#3 and #4 are not even worth responding to as I answered your points and you didn't give me valid response. #4 is mostly opinion heavy anyways. However, I stand by my comments that the disunity/lack of support for the nation has weakened American significantly in the second half of the 20th Century and 21st Century.
 
#22,559
#22,559
volbound1700 said:
Also don't get me wrong, I don't think the Jews are always 100% innocent either and frankly if there was no Arab/Muslim states and a bunch of Jewish States in the region, I would probably lean more towards the Palestinian cause.

As stated, it also doesn't help that I know so much about Islamic wars on Christians in the past and the desire by Islam for Global Jihad. I don't see an equivalent right now to that in Judaism.
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Dude.
There’s nobody innocent in this deal. Who has behaved worse is pure speculation and just depends on what you value.
Both sides claim it is to the death. At this point everyone is just arguing for who they hope or think is going to win.
 
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#22,563
#22,563
Orangeslice13 said:
Dude.
There’s nobody innocent in this deal. Who has behaved worse is pure speculation and just depends on what you value.
Both sides claim it is to the death. At this point everyone is just arguing for who they hope or think is going to win.
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Sadly, a lot of truth to this comment and I am throwing my lot in with the Jews as I think they are more favorable to my side than the Palestinian side. The history that I describe plays a huge part.
 
#22,564
#22,564
Rasputin_Vol said:
Israelis won't be killing anyone but civilians and themselves if they aren't careful. The only ones they haven't seemed to kill are the people that were actually involved in October 7th.
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They have only killed civilians right...30k plus
 
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#22,572
#22,572
volgr said:
Iran's response was measured in comparison to Israel's unhinged slaughter.
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I was referring to their state sponsored terrorist groups for years . I was just curious if that’s considered out of control .
 
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