It wasn't that they were too young, they just acted like a bunch of street ballers

#76
#76
Sudeepvol said:
Now you're analyzing the game way to much. My point is that while Lofton did will Tennessee to a lot of wins, Bruce had been doing more with less during that time. The talent difference between Tennessee and Florida during those two years was unbelievable. If you say Lofton willed them to victory, they still had to play defense. Guarding those group of guys is as tough a task as any.

Bottom line:

The talent difference between Tennessee and Florida at that time is greater than the talent difference between UK and UT over the past couple of years.
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Ok? I think Bruce is a better coach than Billy D. I never said he wasn't. I think Billy was over hyped and considered "elite" because of his unlikely force of NBA players all on one squad as I already mentioned.

But I still think it's more likely that Billy D. wins another title before Bruce wins 1 solely based on the type of game he chooses to play (assuming Bruce doesn't try to adjust and improve in his future which I hope he does).

And I'm not saying Bruce wasn't responsible for those wins - but it is glaringly obvious this year that Lofton and Jajuan really did cover up some of his flaws in the half court offense. Our half court sets look almost exactly the same - except we hit iron this time instead of net when we launch a desperation three.
 
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#77
#77
I guess I'm missing your point. You said that BCG has owned Bruce, which I have agreed with. But that necessarily doesn't make him the better coach. Bruce has owned the SEC overall the past four years in the regular season, and I'd much rather have that than a winning record against our rival coach. It seems like you're taking his 1-3 record and making it seem more important than it really should be.
 
#78
#78
At the same time I'm not saying that Bruce is a better coach than BCG. I'm just saying right now, it's hard to tell. I just don't understand the people who are in love with BCG and would prefer him over Pearl as our coach right now. Makes no sense to me.
 
#79
#79
No - I just think it's a matter of time if UK keeps him around till some of the posters will be eating their words.

I think CBG is a better coach (imo) and an even better recruiter and it scares the heck out of me. With UK being UK.... + a recruiter like him it's only a matter of time until Kentucky starts owning the SEC again (not as badly as they have in the past since those days are long gone).

I'll be very happy if UK gets rid of him. Maybe we'll steal a couple of their recruits in the process. Coaches like Pearl make people assume if you're not an instant success, then you must be a failure. His Kentucky squads have looked pathetic at times and that's for sure - but you've seen some great performances by them as well that lead people to believe when he gets even more top notch guys in they will be the favorites most years. And the fact that his teams just look a lot more disciplined than ours in the half court sets worries me as well. If Meeks and PP return and with the addition of Orton and Hood I have no reason to believe they won't own us again and possibly win the SEC if Liggins can stop being a moron at PG.
 
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#80
#80
I don't think BCG should be fired either. Two years is obviously not enough time to stabilize your regime, and I think Bruce has had a lot to do with that misconception in the SEC. However, because Kentucky is Kentucky, I do fear they could get a better coach. But with the names being tossed around right now, I don't see them ending up with anyone better.
 
#81
#81
And if CBG never does pan out - well the next coach definitely won't be lacking a solid core of players to build on if they can keep their current commits.
 
#82
#82
Bassmanbruno said:
kiffinator13 said:
Sure did treat him fairly well at TAMU. And I don't think he's the greatest. I also watched Rick Pitino's press against us last year which was about 100x most effective than our trap off the first pass - then get burnt and either give up an easy lay up or back off. Made Pearl's style of press look pathetic. His teams also know how to execute a half court offense effectively and play defense every once and awhile.
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Could it be that maybe pitino's players was just better than the ones we had on our team? I think that Pearl will eventually break through to the Great Eight and beyond.
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#84
#84
We really missed someone like Lofton who could consistently make shots. We even missed several layups against Okie St. Foul shooting was horrific all year.

Prince is a great athlete but can't hit a foul shot after getting fouled driving to the basket. He made some of the biggest bonehead mistakes that would make a rookie blush.

We need a PG who can guard the other team's small quick people and who can drive to the basket and distribute the ball.

I believe Pearl will do better next year if he can get the players to fill the biggest needs.
 
#85
#85
Bob Knight made a couple of salient point yesterday on the radio. He was asked what he's seen from teams in the tourney--the state of the game, really---that he doesn't like as a longtime coach. He said two things: He said, first, that doesn't like teams that //rely// on the three-point shot, as opposed to /utilizing/ the trey when it's there after running the offense. Basically, that you don't come down the floor, make two/three passes on the perimeter, and then somebody hoists a three.

The other thing he sees that bothers him are players who lack court awareness and don't give defensive help when help is needed--or probably WILL be needed. I think this translates into having halfway intelligent guys on the court. If you're guarding a power forward late in the game who's not a scorer--and the opponents point guard is a scorer, and likes to take the rock to the rack, you are aware of what he is doing even as you are guarding you man, so that you can get over early to help when it's needed.

Knight didn't mention Tennessee in his comments--but he could have!

The thing about the three-point shot is, if you've got somebody like Lofton or Redick, yea, let 'em shoot it--but if you don't, then don't throw up 33 of them. That's soft basketball--and so is letting your opponent shoot 57 percent. UT*was soft this year.
 
#86
#86
UTVOLSGURU said:
I am not taking anything away from Bruce Pearl, I mean without Pearl, Tennessee Basketball would still be in the same pathetic state it was in with Buzz Peterson. Now to disecting the first round game against Okie State, they showed heart, but they just were playing like a bunch of street ballers, I mean just inside, throwing elbows, just messing up when they were within two of okie state. Okie State stepped up and took it inside and did not back down, Tennessee on the other hand got frustrated and just started throwing it around without abandon and basically played like it was a 5 on 5 game at Rucker Park, I guess next year may be the year, but I hate to get my hopes up, GO Vols!!!
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:thugs:
 
#87
#87
Gentleman Jack said:
volbeast33 said:
Also, remember that we had JP running the point for that game...that would probably make anyone's press look great!
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Everyone that took the ball up the court struggled that game. And it wasn't only the guy being pressed. JP/Ramar would take it up court pass it to some guy at half court or beyond then they'd try to make a stupid/retarded pass to someone down low who would take a quick/bad shot in order to try to beat the press and it would usually result in a brick.
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#88
#88
volbeast33 said:
Could it be that maybe pitino's players was just better than the ones we had on our team? I think that Pearl will eventually break through to the Great Eight and beyond.
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Yeah his players were far better - but they were also far more disciplined when it came to their play and that's why their press is twice as good and always has been.

Pearl's press has been good 1 year - his first year - and I'd say the reason is was good then and basically average to above average the other years (non-existent this year) is because he had the element of surprise on his side and teams weren't accustomed to seeing it as much (in the SEC). Most coaches figured out who to take advantage of it - although it didn't matter for some because their teams were just terrible.
 
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#89
#89
Bassmanbruno said:
Seriously - keep playing the AA card on Meeks. If he didn't have to take 50% of UK's shots because they have been abysmal on offense then you wouldn't be discussing him.

I think there was a pretty good reason people voted for Marcus Thornton over Jodie for SEC POY - don't you? Common sense was that reason.

Not every coach can come in and pull a "Nick Saban" or "Bruce Pearl" and have almost instant success. If they keep him around long enough they're going to have the most loaded team in the SEC with a coach who fields some of the best defenses in the NCAA.
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Absolutely Not.:no:
 
#90
#90
PandamoniumReigns said:
Absolutely Not.:no:
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You obviously aren't aware of how well he recruits - add that to the fact that he is recruiting to one of the top 3 basketball schools in the country and it's a slam dunk.

How could you honestly think differently? The dude pulled Patrick Patterson out of his butt the same way Kiffin pulled in Bryce Brown at the last moment. The guy can recruit.
 
#91
#91
Bassmanbruno said:
You obviously aren't aware of how well he recruits - add that to the fact that he is recruiting to one of the top 3 basketball schools in the country and it's a slam dunk.

How could you honestly think differently? The dude pulled Patrick Patterson out of his butt the same way Kiffin pulled in Bryce Brown at the last moment. The guy can recruit.
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In no way did I say he can't recruit. However, not ALL credit should be given to BCG for Patterson.
BCG is a good coach. However, he has done nothing thus far to give him god-like status like some on this board (*cough-Hatvol-cough*) do. Thus far, at one of the top 3 schools in the country, he has pretty much accomplished nothing. His record against Pearl is irrelevant. His overall record and body of work at Kentucky is relevant. Right now, it is not impressive.

And before you accuse me of being a Bruce Homer....I feel the same way about Bruce....His record against Florida, which so many are quick to quote, is irrelevant. His overall body of work is relevant.
Granted, he has two more years at his respective school than does BCG, but thus far, Pearl's accomplishments outshine BCG. Let's wait 2 years and compare BCG's first four at kentucky to Pearl's first four at Tenn.....granted that BCG makes it that far....
 
#92
#92
Then why did you quote the recruiting part and how he'll stack UK with talent whether or not he pans out to be a good coach or not at UK? And why not credit CBG for PP?

He certainly wouldn't of been at UK if Tubby was there.
 
#93
#93
Bassmanbruno said:
Then why did you quote the recruiting part and how he'll stack UK with talent whether or not he pans out to be a good coach or not at UK? And why not credit CBG for PP?

He certainly wouldn't of been at UK if Tubby was there.
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You've been stating that BCG will have KY loaded and will again be dominant in SEC. That will not happen. They will win the SEC again, but not for several years in a row like they have in past.

Kentucky will no longer have a dominant talent level over all SEC teams again, like they have in the past.

PP was already being recruited to KY prior to BCG. BCG may have solidified that recruit. However, to compare it with Kiffin getting Brown is not a good argument. Brown overall was not interested in Tenn or really even recruited until Kiffin got to Tenn.
 
#94
#94
PandamoniumReigns said:
You've been stating that BCG will have KY loaded and will again be dominant in SEC. That will not happen. They will win the SEC again, but not for several years in a row like they have in past.

Kentucky will no longer have a dominant talent level over all SEC teams again, like they have in the past.

PP was already being recruited to KY prior to BCG. BCG may have solidified that recruit. However, to compare it with Kiffin getting Brown is not a good argument. Brown overall was not interested in Tenn or really even recruited until Kiffin got to Tenn.
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I would bet my life on the fact PP wasn't going to UK with Tubby there (ok maybe not my life - but the point still stands). Not the exact same - but still impressive either way. Plus look at the recruits he already has committed and the ones from his last class if you need further proof.

And I never guaranteed that UK would be dominating the SEC again. I said it scares me because I can see them getting very good again - but I also said not like they dominated it before because there is much more talent to go around for the other teams.

The only thing I am sold on is the fact that Billy G. will bring in tons of talent to Lexington again and they will atleast have a top notch defense for several years if they keep him around and don't pull the trigger - the rest is speculation that CBG really is the coach that UK fans want him to be and that they'll win several SECC under him. "If they keep him around long enough they're going to have the most loaded team in the SEC with a coach who fields some of the best defenses in the NCAA." That's the statement you bolded from my post - and I believe those two things will be facts in a few years if they keep him. The speculation is that when those things fall into place that he will bring UK back to the top of the SEC - unless he turns out to just be a pathetic coach.
 
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#95
#95
Bassmanbruno said:
I would bet my life on the fact PP wasn't going to UK with Tubby there (ok maybe not my life - but the point still stands). Not the exact same - but still impressive either way. Plus look at the recruits he already has committed and the ones from his last class if you need further proof.

And I never guaranteed that UK would be dominating the SEC again. I said it scares me because I can see them getting very good again - but I also said not like they dominated it before because there is much more talent to go around for the other teams.

The only thing I am sold on is the fact that Billy G. will bring in tons of talent to Lexington again and they will atleast have a top notch defense for several years if they keep him around and don't pull the trigger - the rest is speculation that CBG really is the coach that UK fans want him to be and that they'll win several SECC under him. "If they keep him around long enough they're going to have the most loaded team in the SEC with a coach who fields some of the best defenses in the NCAA." That's the statement you bolded from my post - and I believe those two things will be facts in a few years if they keep him. The speculation is that when those things fall into place that he will bring UK back to the top of the SEC - unless he turns out to just be a pathetic coach.
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I never said he was. I simply said he was being recruited by UK already.

And Kentucky will always get some talent for the sole fact that they are Kentucky. My point was that BCG has not done mcuh of anything thus far showing that he will get the Wildcats back to the top anytime soon on a regular basis.

I'd rather BCG stick around. It makes for a good rivalry. However, my other point in my posts here were to state that BCG is not the elite coach that some (*again* cough*hatvol*cough*) on here argue that he is.

It was argued that Texas AM lost to Memphis by one or two points in the sweet sixteen. This was used as a arguing point attempting to show BCG was better coach than Pearl. That same year, Tenn lost by 2 points (I think) to the National Runner Up in the Sweet Sixteen.
That argument does not hold water. Both are losses.
 
#96
#96
PandamoniumReigns said:
I never said he was. I simply said he was being recruited by UK already.

And Kentucky will always get some talent for the sole fact that they are Kentucky. My point was that BCG has not done mcuh of anything thus far showing that he will get the Wildcats back to the top anytime soon on a regular basis.

I'd rather BCG stick around. It makes for a good rivalry. However, my other point in my posts here were to state that BCG is not the elite coach that some (*again* cough*hatvol*cough*) on here argue that he is.

It was argued that Texas AM lost to Memphis by one or two points in the sweet sixteen. This was used as a arguing point attempting to show BCG was better coach than Pearl. That same year, Tenn lost by 2 points (I think) to the National Runner Up in the Sweet Sixteen.
That argument does not hold water. Both are losses.
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Tennessee lost by a point.
 
#97
#97
PandamoniumReigns said:
You've been stating that BCG will have KY loaded and will again be dominant in SEC. That will not happen. They will win the SEC again, but not for several years in a row like they have in past.

Kentucky will no longer have a dominant talent level over all SEC teams again, like they have in the past.

PP was already being recruited to KY prior to BCG. BCG may have solidified that recruit. However, to compare it with Kiffin getting Brown is not a good argument. Brown overall was not interested in Tenn or really even recruited until Kiffin got to Tenn.
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They will. It's just a matter of whether or not BCG can coach them up or not.
 
#99
#99
Bassmanbruno said:
I would bet my life on the fact PP wasn't going to UK with Tubby there (ok maybe not my life - but the point still stands). Not the exact same - but still impressive either way. Plus look at the recruits he already has committed and the ones from his last class if you need further proof.

And I never guaranteed that UK would be dominating the SEC again. I said it scares me because I can see them getting very good again - but I also said not like they dominated it before because there is much more talent to go around for the other teams.

The only thing I am sold on is the fact that Billy G. will bring in tons of talent to Lexington again and they will atleast have a top notch defense for several years if they keep him around and don't pull the trigger - the rest is speculation that CBG really is the coach that UK fans want him to be and that they'll win several SECC under him. "If they keep him around long enough they're going to have the most loaded team in the SEC with a coach who fields some of the best defenses in the NCAA." That's the statement you bolded from my post - and I believe those two things will be facts in a few years if they keep him. The speculation is that when those things fall into place that he will bring UK back to the top of the SEC - unless he turns out to just be a pathetic coach.
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I know that Gillespie seems to an adequate recruiter, but his results don't seem that much more impressive than Pearl's. It is obviously much easier to recruit at Kentucky, and I would say right now that Pearl's recruiting is at least even with BCG's; therefore, I would think that would render BP a better recruiter because of the difference in the stature between the two programs.
 
#100
#100
kiffinator13 said:
I know that Gillespie seems to an adequate recruiter, but his results don't seem that much more impressive than Pearl's. It is obviously much easier to recruit at Kentucky, and I would say right now that Pearl's recruiting is at least even with BCG's; therefore, I would think that would render BP a better recruiter because of the difference in the stature between the two programs.
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You also have to consider the fact that UK has had two pretty crappy season to UK's standards and it's only his second year and the past two season Tennessee has had the best season in our school history and a decent season. It usually takes them being there 3-4 years to fully accomplish what they want because you have to be able to get on the freshmen/sophomores early and make a good impression. Although - Billy has already done that a bit by robbing the cradle.
 
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