Jalen Hurd's version

#26
#26
05_never_again said:
The funny thing about the Hurd situation is that Alvin Kamara seems like the RB that should have the biggest beef with Butch, not Hurd.

We've heard so many different things - Butch told Hurd that he'd change his offense to better suit him and did not, Butch wouldn't let Hurd change positions, etc. But the fact is that Hurd was our starting RB and got the majority of the carries until the day he quit, despite average far less YPC than Kamara and Kamara being such an obvious better fit for the offense they were running.

Butch was a horrible coach, and if he actually told Hurd he was going to change the offense and did not then he shouldn't have (although Hurd is an idiot for believing him), but Hurd comes off as nothing more than a petulant child. The straw that broke the camel's back appeared to be him getting chewed out for prancing into the end zone during the Georgia game, he got his feelings hurt, then quit a few weeks later. Hurd was a bad teammate mishandled by a bad coaching staff...what a combo.
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This is spot on
 
#27
#27
BigOrangeMojo said:
There is a lot of blame to go around here....

Butch changed S&C, had his buddies in over their head coaching OL, the culture changed, and the OL was getting manhandled by teams such as Ap State (Which led to Hurd getting beat up more than he should have). Butch had Kamara who was getting 8 carries a game and Kelly behind Hurd yet failed to make any adjustments....

Hurd has plenty of blame as well. He got his feelings hurt and quit during the middle of a game. It's one thing to quit after the season (understandable) and even another to quit after a game...it's entirely something else to quit during a game.
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Pretty much sums it up. I don't wish him ill, but he left in bad form. He could have easily finished the season with passion, but chose to quit on his team @ SC.

Fair enough, Butch knew he had to post some W's, and at that point, Hurd appeared to be one of his best chances to do that. But, if they were keen on their evals, he'd have known that AK and Kelly could pick up the rushing attack, and put Hurd out at WR. Hurd's also probably needed the time off to refine himself, so an immediate change to WR may not have worked...especially since we rarely successfully passed to WR's in the past 3 years.
 
#28
#28
From all I've heard, I don't doubt for a second Jones was hard to deal with behind the scenes. Heck maybe even was a d-bag at times.

But even still, if Hurd simply doesn't quit during the season and gives his teammates 100% and plays out the season then transfers, then the perception of him isn't even close to as bad as it is right now. I'm sure he has some legit issues, but sometimes even when you're right you can deal with it in a way that makes you the bad guy.

As 05 said, Kamara likely has a bigger beef, but he handled it the right way.
 
#30
#30
This article is just so full of crap...even the little stuff in it is wrong.
He has kept a low profile by choice, from his last day as anointed savior of the Tennessee program to his now-welcomed obscurity at a Baylor program left for dead—for a couple more months, anyway
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That's a pretty big exaggeration. Hurd was one of many highly-touted recruits in Butch's recruiting classes that people were excited about. "Anointed savior of the Tennessee program?" Nah.
"All he had to do was finish out that last season at Tennessee, and he gets picked in the middle of the first round, and he's making a lot of money," an NFL scout told Bleacher Report.
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I'd love to know what NFL scout told them this, because Jalen Hurd was not getting picked in the first round of the 2017 draft if he finished out the season. He was not having a good year (3.7 YPC) and pretty clearly lacked the speed and quickness needed to be a great NFL RB.
If anyone was going to be a Vol, if anyone would have a street named after them next to Peyton Manning Pass and Tee Martin Drive, it was Hurd.
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Where's the vomit emoticon?
Hurd went to the Tennessee staff and asked to be used more on the perimeter and less between the tackles. He thought, who is going to cover, or bring down by himself, a 240-pound tailback in space?
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That's the exact opposite story of what was strongly rumored at the time, which was that Hurd wanted to be used more between the tackles. Butch's offense, after all, was a read option, perimeter-oriented offense ill-suited for a big, physical, downhill, between the tackles runner like Hurd. At least at Tennessee, Hurd really lacked the speed and quickness to make plays in space.
 
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#31
#31
Volfan76 said:
I really don't understand all the animosity towards him. Given all we now know about how Butch mismanaged almost every facet of the football program here, I don't see how anyone could blame any player for leaving to better himself. Seems that if there is anyone to be angry at here, it's Butch. If Hurd does well at Baylor, then it just indicates how my Butch was in over his head here.
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Because people live vicariously through the football team so Hurd leaving was like their Dad going to get a pack of smokes and never coming back while stealing their girlfriend.
 
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#32
#32
cHiZzLeVOL said:
It's kind of hard to pin this against Butch considering Hurd played RB in HS and had rushed for over 2000 yards in 2 seasons in College.

Kind of hard to be like hey Hurd you know what we recruited you as a RB and you are putting up some amazing numbers but you know what let's forget all that and play you at receiver.....

Again don't think Jones did well in this program but can't pin this one on him.
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Jones problem was when he lied (more than once) in an attempt to not lose a Tennessee kid that was the cornerstone of a recruiting class 2 years after he got here.

Jones was a perception guy. That burned him a few more times before he was eventually fired for not producing.

Throwing it all on either is foolish.
 
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#34
#34
bamawriter said:
There's revisionist history, and then there's bull****. This fluff piece is the latter.
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Nobody hates Hurd more than Bama fans...gotta be the ignoring Saban’s calls thing. :lol:
 
#35
#35
BeecherVol said:
Jones problem was when he lied (more than once) in an attempt to not lose a Tennessee kid that was the cornerstone of a recruiting class 2 years after he got here.

Jones was a perception guy. That burned him a few more times before he was eventually fired for not producing.

Throwing it all on either is foolish.
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Yep. That is the only reason I can come up with as to why Hurd started until the day he quit over Kamara. Hurd was part of that 2014 class with Malone, TK Jr, Derek Barnett, etc. It would "look bad" if he lost him.
 
#36
#36
05_never_again said:
This article is just so full of crap...even the little stuff in it is wrong.

That's a pretty big exaggeration. Hurd was one of many highly-touted recruits in Butch's recruiting classes that people were excited about. "Anointed savior of the Tennessee program?" Nah.

I'd love to know what NFL scout told them this, because Jalen Hurd was not getting picked in the first round of the 2017 draft if he finished out the season. He was not having a good year (3.7 YPC) and pretty clearly lacked the speed and quickness needed to be a great NFL RB.

Where's the vomit emoticon?

That's the exact opposite story of what was strongly rumored at the time, which was that Hurd wanted to be used more between the tackles. Butch's offense, after all, was a read option, perimeter-oriented offense ill-suited for a big, physical, downhill, between the tackles runner like Hurd. At least at Tennessee, Hurd really lacked the speed and quickness to make plays in space.
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This my friends is right on the money 💰
 
#37
#37
05_never_again said:
Yep. That is the only reason I can come up with as to why Hurd started until the day he quit over Kamara. Hurd was part of that 2014 class with Malone, TK Jr, Derek Barnett, etc. It would "look bad" if he lost him.
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Kamara fit what Jones wanted to do. Jones wanted Hurd to think he was open and willing to change. He recruited him under that idea, then recruited him again on it 2 years later to keep him from leaving.

To be fair, Hurd is not as bad a back as some want him to be.
 
#38
#38
BeecherVol said:
Kamara fit what Jones wanted to do. Jones wanted Hurd to think he was open and willing to change. He recruited him under that idea, then recruited him again on it 2 years later to keep him from leaving.

To be fair, Hurd is not as bad a back as some want him to be.
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I don't think he's anywhere near as good as some want(ed) him to be either. There's been a lot of good debate here about Butch's recruiting classes and whether or not Butch was simply a bad talent developer or a lot those guys were just overrated.

On the whole, those classes didn't pan out because Butch was a bad developer. However, I think in Hurd's case, he was overrated. He was a bad fit in Butch's offense to begin with, but I'm not sure he would have been the dynamite RB everyone projected if he played in a between the tackles, conventional offense either. He's a taller-running, slower, less quick version of Derrick Henry. Linebackers routinely ran him down from behind if he got beyond them.
 
#39
#39
Oh, and I left out perhaps the most misleading quote in that article, which is full of incorrect things:
In the state of Tennessee, among the Big Orange faithful, Hurd's fall from grace went like this. He was benched by coach Butch Jones during the Georgia game after celebrating a touchdown; a week later, when he was held out of the Texas A&M game (under concussion protocol and with a season-long ankle injury that was never disclosed), he became a "quitter" and a "locker room cancer."
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He was not benched by Butch after celebrating a touchdown against Georgia. He was benched by Butch after he caught a pass on the 2 yard line, began to loaf into the end zone because he didn't see the defender trailing the play, got lit up by said defender, and fumbled the ball before scoring, giving the ball back to Georgia. If memory serves, he did score a TD after that and was actually benched after that TD; it wasn't even an immediate benching.

The picture that article wants to paint of him is different from what actually occurred.
 
#40
#40
BeecherVol said:
To be fair, Hurd is not as bad a back as some want him to be.
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As is often the case Hurd's worst enemy in that regard was the hype. It would have been damn difficult for anyone to have lived up to the expectations some put him. In all fairness though he never, ever showed himself to be special. He was not particularly elusive, never showed the speed on the field he supposedly possessed and for his size could be disturbingly easy to bring down, especially if moving laterally at all.

So is it fair to say he wasn't as bad a back as is argued by some? IMHO that probably is an accurate observation. I think it's just as fair to say he came up far short of what we hoped to see from a 5* RB.
 
#41
#41
hndog609 said:
As is often the case Hurd's worst enemy in that regard was the hype. It would have been damn difficult for anyone to have lived up to the expectations some put him. In all fairness though he never, ever showed himself to be special. He was not particularly elusive, never showed the speed on the field he supposedly possessed and for his size could be disturbingly easy to bring down, especially if moving laterally at all.

So is it fair to say he wasn't as bad a back as is argued by some? IMHO that probably is an accurate observation. I think it's just as fair to say he came up far short of what we hoped to see from a 5* RB.
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The only thing that ever impressed me about him was that when he did get a head of steam built up, he could absolutely demolish people. You'd expect that from a 6'4'', 230 lb RB, but still, he could do it.

The problem was, as you said, he lacked the speed and elusiveness to be successful at this level, and he was surprisingly easy to bring down around the line of scrimmage by an ankle tackle. As big as he was, he had trouble fighting through people around the line.

Butch was a bad developer and didn't get anywhere near the most out of what he could have with these kids, but Hurd was misidentified out of high school as a 5-star RB. He just wasn't that good.
 
#44
#44
bamawriter said:
He's too slow to play RB in the NFL.
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Yep, and he's too slow to be a WR too, which, according to the article, is what he's going to try to play at Baylor.

He needs to learn how to catch (he had no hands either, at least at Tennessee) and play TE. If he learned the position, he could be a good NFL TE probably.

Good Lord, that article was so dumb. I opened it up again and saw "the one-time, can't-miss, 6'4", 240-pound prototype NFL tailback." Does the person writing this even watch football? That is not prototypical NFL tailback size, to put it mildly.
 
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#49
#49
butchna said:
Terrell Davis ran a 4.7. Emmitt Smith a 4.6...on his best day. He never displayed their vision but it ain’t about speed.
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Well, it CAN be about speed but only relative to other aspects. Raw speed can make up for less than stellar attributes elsewhere and vice versa. For instance Davis was clearly no burner in the traditional sense but had a faster 20 and 60 yard shuttle than Alvin Kamara, and we know that guy is shifty.

Hurd's problem is that if he isn't creating space for himself with vision and shiftiness he would need to at least be able to exploit creases with raw speed. Unfortunately he showed limited ability in all these metrics.
 
#50
#50
05_never_again said:
I don't think he's anywhere near as good as some want(ed) him to be either. There's been a lot of good debate here about Butch's recruiting classes and whether or not Butch was simply a bad talent developer or a lot those guys were just overrated.

On the whole, those classes didn't pan out because Butch was a bad developer. However, I think in Hurd's case, he was overrated. He was a bad fit in Butch's offense to begin with, but I'm not sure he would have been the dynamite RB everyone projected if he played in a between the tackles, conventional offense either. He's a taller-running, slower, less quick version of Derrick Henry. Linebackers routinely ran him down from behind if he got beyond them.
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I don't agree, but to each his own.

Hes 4 games away from being viewed totally different during his time here. I'm sure plenty will jump up and say "I didn't think he was ever that good" but him leaving the way he did (which I felt was wrong) was the bigger reason as why the perception of him is what it is.
 
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