Jalen Hurd's version

#52
#52
BeecherVol said:
I don't agree, but to each his own.

Hes 4 games away from being viewed totally different during his time here. I'm sure plenty will jump up and say "I didn't think he was ever that good" but him leaving the way he did (which I felt was wrong) was the bigger reason as why the perception of him is what it is.
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I disagree. Had he stayed, UT might well have lost more than just the Vandy game. Butch would have continued to give him carries at Kamara's expense, and the team would have suffered for it. The pace Hurd had set over 7 games was abysmal.
 
#53
#53
bamawriter said:
I disagree. Had he stayed, UT might well have lost more than just the Vandy game. Butch would have continued to give him carries at Kamara's expense, and the team would have suffered for it. The pace Hurd had set over 7 games was abysmal.
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Who said Kamara shouldn't have gotten more touches? In all phases. I'm just saying the perception of Hurd had more to do with how he left than than what he was as a player.

I'm not trying to convince you so it matters little.

Jones had 1 foot on a banana peel. If that got him run quicker I doubt many would have cared.
 
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#55
#55
FLVOL_79 said:
Because people live vicariously through the football team so Hurd leaving was like their Dad going to get a pack of smokes and never coming back while stealing their girlfriend.
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Ricky Bobby's dad way more popular than JH.
m6m1yT
 
#56
#56
BeecherVol said:
Who said Kamara shouldn't have gotten more touches? In all phases.
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I didn't say that he shouldn't have gotten more carries. Just the opposite, in fact.

I said that, had Hurd stayed, he would have had more carries that Kamara because Butch Jones is an idiot.
 
#57
#57
volfanngatorland said:
Yes he is

Corey Clement got 74 carries and ran like a 4.69 last year at 220. Speed is so overrated for RBs. He’s fast enough
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I don't care what anyone runs in the 40. Hurd was consistently chased down by linebackers, let alone DBs. His longest career carry was 48 yards. For a guy with 600 carries, that's pitiful.
 
#61
#61
bamawriter said:
I didn't say that he shouldn't have gotten more carries. Just the opposite, in fact.

I said that, had Hurd stayed, he would have had more carries that Kamara because Butch Jones is an idiot.
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Yea, but he's Bama's idiot now.. Here's to hoping he can somehow, someway deliver a big turdburger to the tide..... :)
 
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#62
#62
bamawriter said:
I didn't say that he shouldn't have gotten more carries. Just the opposite, in fact.

I said that, had Hurd stayed, he would have had more carries that Kamara because Butch Jones is an idiot.
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Go back and reread what you quoted.

The only point I was making was how the perception of Hurd as player and person is different (especially in any discussion involving UT fans) than it would have been had he just finished the season.

That has nothing to do with Kamara or how misused he was.

Hurd actually did Jones a favor. He helped relief some of the pressure at the time by becoming a goat. Eventually Jones stole the show back and left no doubt.
 
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#63
#63
BeecherVol said:
I don't agree, but to each his own.

Hes 4 games away from being viewed totally different during his time here. I'm sure plenty will jump up and say "I didn't think he was ever that good" but him leaving the way he did (which I felt was wrong) was the bigger reason as why the perception of him is what it is.
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If by "viewed totally different" you mean viewed only as an overrated player as opposed to being viewed as an overrated player in addition to a bad teammate, then I suppose you are correct.

A lot of how he'd be viewed if he stayed would depend on where exactly he ended up on the school's all time rushing list. He was on his way to potentially setting the record because of the sheer volume of carries he would have had (very similar to Arian Foster, another guy who is high on the rushing list but that is kind of misleading). He probably was going to average about 4.5 YPC for his career, which isn't great, and during the 2016 season he was averaging only 3.7, which is abysmal.

Travis Henry, on the other hand, averaged 5.5 YPC and set the school's rushing record in only 2+ full seasons, more or less (he split carries in 1998 and 1999 and was only "the guy" for one year). He would have ended up probably surpassing Henry on the list, but that in no way would mean he's in his league.
 
#64
#64
05_never_again said:
Travis Henry, on the other hand, averaged 5.5 YPC and set the school's rushing record in only 2+ full seasons, more or less (he split carries in 1998 and 1999 and was only "the guy" for one year). He would have ended up probably surpassing Henry on the list, but that in no way would mean he's in his league.
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This is a good observation and is not remotely limited to this example. My favorite is that Barry Sanders isn't even in OK St's top 5 in career rushing. Is there anyone that seriously thinks there's even a conversation to be had he isn't the most talented back to play there?
 
#65
#65
hndog609 said:
This is a good observation and is not remotely limited to this example. My favorite is that Barry Sanders isn't even in OK St's top 5 in career rushing. Is there anyone that seriously thinks there's even a conversation to be had he isn't the most talented back to play there?
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Yep. Most of the best players ever at a position are gone after 3 years, sometimes only 2 (or even one) as a starter and don't have time to set the yardage records.

Someone like Peyton Manning is an exception; he was the best ever at the position and was around a long time. However take a look at Cam Newton; he's the best QB in Auburn history and was there a year.
 
#66
#66
05_never_again said:
If by "viewed totally different" you mean viewed only as an overrated player as opposed to being viewed as an overrated player in addition to a bad teammate, then I suppose you are correct.
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No.
Well I suppose you need to define "overrated".

Hes not the best RB in school history no, there are even some behind him that are better RBs even tho they don't have the numbers. But the "overrated" talk to the level it currently is at is a bit much. You would think he should have never made a D1 roster. He played on some of the worst teams in school history and behind some of the worst OLs I've ever seen.

It's easy to see the mob grab forks when a guy does something the way he did it. (Which was more to my point as to why hes viewed the way he is) You ll have a handful that held that opinion of him before that happened but that snowball didn't gain traction til he quit midseason.
 
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#67
#67
05_never_again said:
Travis Henry, on the other hand, averaged 5.5 YPC and set the school's rushing record in only 2+ full seasons, more or less (he split carries in 1998 and 1999 and was only "the guy" for one year). He would have ended up probably surpassing Henry on the list, but that in no way would mean he's in his league.
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Henry was a great back. I don't think anyone has mention that Hurd was better. I know I havent. And I don't think he was the best RB at UT even tho he currently holds the number. It appears you re stepping all over yourself to denounce a point that was never made.

The best RB to ever play at UT doesn't make the top 10 by the numbers. And I'd have another probably near the top 5 that isn't on the list either.

The rushing totals list doesn't tell the story by itself as to who is the best or even how they rank really. But if you do find yourself in the top 10, at a top 10 school like UT you re doing pretty good.
 
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#68
#68
One of his best plays at TN was his TD catch in the 3rd quarter against UF, down 21-3. He was absolutely a team player and very very talented in many aspects of the game. While my instinct is to say he quit on the team, I do think things were so toxic with the coaching staff that in some ways it’s hard to blame him for leaving. Juan Jennings certainly shed some light on that.
 
#69
#69
PMC2726 said:
One of his best plays at TN was his TD catch in the 3rd quarter against UF, down 21-3. He was absolutely a team player and very very talented in many aspects of the game. While my instinct is to say he quit on the team, I do think things were so toxic with the coaching staff that in some ways it’s hard to blame him for leaving. Juan Jennings certainly shed some light on that.
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Lying to players is a bad idea.
 
#70
#70
BeecherVol said:
No.
Well I suppose you need to define "overrated".

Hes not the best RB in school history no, there are even some behind him that are better RBs even tho they don't have the numbers. But the "overrated" talk to the level it currently is at is a bit much. You would think he should have never made a D1 roster. He played on some of the worst teams in school history and behind some of the worst OLs I've ever seen.

It's easy to see the mob grab forks when a guy does something the way he did it. (Which was more to my point as to why hes viewed the way he is) You ll have a handful that held that opinion of him before that happened but that snowball didn't gain traction til he quit midseason.
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Kamara and John Kelly played on those same bad teams/offensive lines, and they put up better numbers and were both better backs than Hurd. That's why he's overrated. John Kelly somehow averaged almost 5 yards from scrimmage per touch in 2017 with an absolutely atrocious and injury-ravaged offensive line. Hurd in 2016? 4.0, including a whopping 3.7 YPC. Kelly average 4.1 YPC in 2017.

I'm not saying Hurd was overrated just because he quit mid-season. Hurd was overrated because he did not perform like a highly-rated 4 or 5-star recruit while here, even when accounting for a bad offensive line, and it was frustrating as a fan because he consistently got playing time over another RB on the roster who not only was a better RB for the offense they were running, but was a better RB period.
 
#71
#71
Hated in Tennessee seems so false in my opinion. I really like the guy, one of my favorite players to watch. I didn't agree with the way Butch was using him either, wish nothing but the best for him at Baylor.
 
#72
#72
05_never_again said:
Kamara and John Kelly played on those same bad teams/offensive lines, and they put up better numbers and were both better backs than Hurd. That's why he's overrated. John Kelly somehow averaged almost 5 yards from scrimmage per touch in 2017 with an absolutely atrocious and injury-ravaged offensive line. Hurd in 2016? 4.0, including a whopping 3.7 YPC. Kelly average 4.1 YPC in 2017.

I'm not saying Hurd was overrated just because he quit mid-season. Hurd was overrated because he did not perform like a highly-rated 4 or 5-star recruit while here, even when accounting for a bad offensive line, and it was frustrating as a fan because he consistently got playing time over another RB on the roster who not only was a better RB for the offense they were running, but was a better RB period.
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Your first sentence in your second paragraph was my entire point.
I'm not going to refute that you mean exactly that or even in your infinite football wisdom that you held that notion before he quit. But that was not the common (or popular) opinion of him until he quit by the masses. Stating anything else is just flat out foolish and dishonest.
When he made that decision (which was a poor one regardless of the situation) it kicked the door open and some have gone overboard trying to make the point.

At the end of the day hes not the 6th best rusher at UT, regardless of the total yards list. But hes also not as overrated as some want think based on his last season and its epic conclusion.
Not that I care to try, but it would be interesting to go back and read thru the opinions after his SO season and see who all had him pegged at that point.
 
#73
#73
BlueHalo said:
Hated in Tennessee seems so false in my opinion. I really like the guy, one of my favorite players to watch. I didn't agree with the way Butch was using him either, wish nothing but the best for him at Baylor.
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He should have gone ahead with his intentions to transfer after his SO year and if he chose to come back he should have finished.
He got some bad advice and he followed it. That's on him in the real world.

Jones was more interested in how something looked instead of how it worked. Hes no longer here because a salesmen with no product only last so long.
 
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#74
#74
PMC2726 said:
One of his best plays at TN was his TD catch in the 3rd quarter against UF, down 21-3. He was absolutely a team player and very very talented in many aspects of the game. While my instinct is to say he quit on the team, I do think things were so toxic with the coaching staff that in some ways it’s hard to blame him for leaving. Juan Jennings certainly shed some light on that.
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I think my stance towards Hurd and how he handled things has softened. I hope he has his head on straight and is successful (I also hope Baylor never wins another game in any sport).
 
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