Jamal Khashoggi

#26
#26
DancingOutlaw said:
Look at what happened to the German army. The Russians strung them out for hundreds of miles until their supply lines were too long and they were enveloped. Their superior air was useless when there were no close bases to sortie from. Russian rail lines were a different gauge than German, so miles were rebuild at large cost of material and time. The Germans had a far superior force that was simply whittled into nothing and had nothing to show for it. The US would have the additional burden to maintain transatlantic supply lines into the interior of Russia. And if they waited for Japan to capitulate first they would be staring down the Russian winter in a few weeks. Color me skeptical.
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Your skepticism is understandable. I think the western Allies had 4.5 million in Europe toward the end of the war and the Soviets 6 million. From that point of view the allies had the disadvantage in numbers and experience. I do think at least initially the Allies could have supplied further campaigning in Central and Eastern Europe until the got into western Russia at which point I'm imagining the would have had to secure Baltic ports. I think it probably would have ended in some sort of stalemate around the prewar border of Poland and the Soviet Union. That's just my guess if the Soviets were not able to keep pushing to the Atlantic which could have been very possible as well.
 
#28
#28
hog88 said:
We could have turned what was left of the German Army around and I believe it would have taken less than a year to push them back to the Russian border.
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The german army was done fighting. the Western Front was their vacation from the Eastern front. they had had enough of war. No supply line, us and the Russians had destroyed that, no support, no arms, no command structure. Doubt we could have quickly equipped, supplied, and organized what was left of their army. plus trying to coordinate any efforts with all the literal bad blood going on.
 
#30
#30
LouderVol said:
The german army was done fighting. the Western Front was their vacation from the Eastern front. they had had enough of war. No supply line, us and the Russians had destroyed that, no support, no arms, no command structure. Doubt we could have quickly equipped, supplied, and organized what was left of their army. plus trying to coordinate any efforts with all the literal bad blood going on.
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I'm not advocating that we could have conquered Russia, just that we could have pushed them back to within their borders. They had overextended their supply lines and were reliant upon us for supplies and air in their push across eastern Europe.
 
#31
#31
hog88 said:
I'm not advocating that we could have conquered Russia, just that we could have pushed them back to within their borders. They had overextended their supply lines and were reliant upon us for supplies and air in their push across eastern Europe.
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we were just as extended. they were dependent early on, towards the end they didn't need us for most things. I think air parts were the thing they needed the most at the end. Berlin would have been another Stalingrad to try and push the Russians out.
 
#32
#32
LouderVol said:
we were just as extended. they were dependent early on, towards the end they didn't need us for most things. I think air parts were the thing they needed the most at the end. Berlin would have been another Stalingrad to try and push the Russians out.
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Should have never let them have it.
 
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#33
#33
hog88 said:
We could have turned what was left of the German Army around and I believe it would have taken less than a year to push them back to the Russian border.
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I think that would have been extremely tough. Not only did they have a sizable army already combat proven, they had pretty dang good Generals and Field Marshals. Adding in the technological upgrade with the T-34 tank, I think it would have been extremely messy on that front and I'm not sure we could have "pushed" them anywhere without significant casualties of our own. Adding in the fact we were still fighting a two front war until August.
 
#34
#34
Grand Vol said:
I think that would have been extremely tough. Not only did they have a sizable army already combat proven, they had pretty dang good Generals and Field Marshals. Adding in the technological upgrade with the T-34 tank, I think it would have been extremely messy on that front and I'm not sure we could have "pushed" them anywhere without significant casualties of our own. Adding in the fact we were still fighting a two front war until August.
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I think our air power could have cut off their supply lines, remember they were about out of fuel when they were surrounding Berlin.
 
#35
#35
hog88 said:
I think our air power could have cut off their supply lines, remember they were about out of fuel when they were surrounding Berlin.
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They were no slouch either when it came to air power. Remember, the Brits and us both gave them thousands of aircraft during the war. Provided, it was considered "second rate" stuff to ours, but overall, they put them to good use. Their own designs weren't too shabby towards the end of the war. The worst part is their industrial base was about as unreachable as ours was. When they headed behind the Urals after the invasion, we would have had way too far to go to bomb them out even with B-29s.

We both would have been at the end of very long supply lines. Plus, the infrastructure in Central Europe was in shambles by the time we finished occupying our part and they theirs. I wouldn't want to make any predictions on how that one would end up.
 
#44
#44
Grand Vol said:
I think that would have been extremely tough. Not only did they have a sizable army already combat proven, they had pretty dang good Generals and Field Marshals. Adding in the technological upgrade with the T-34 tank, I think it would have been extremely messy on that front and I'm not sure we could have "pushed" them anywhere without significant casualties of our own. Adding in the fact we were still fighting a two front war until August.
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And not to mention that this so-called air superiority we would have had in Russia was already playing itself out in Japan with mild results. Between March and August 1945, Japan was getting bombed to the stone age even before the nukes were dropped and they still showed no signs of surrendering.
 
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