Johnny Manziel and the NFL

#103
#103
SpaceCoastVol said:
This brings up an interesting question. How do you define success in the NFL? The history books are full of one hit wonders. Are they successful? Colin Cowherd (who I can't stand btw) said that even the most basic detective work would let you know that guys like Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young.. and many others.. were gonna be basket cases. What leads some of ya'll to believe that Manziel is going to be different than those guys? He has the maturity of Justin Bieber. Talent will only get you so far in that league.

... and I'll betcha that next year Russell Wilson will be average at best.
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I'm not talking pro bowl success. I'm talking about being a starting QB in the NFL. And as I mentioned in the post, his maturity isn't the greatest.
 
#104
#104
gordonr24 said:
I'm not talking pro bowl success. I'm talking about being a starting QB in the NFL. And as I mentioned in the post, his maturity isn't the greatest.
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I agree with that. But a single season of starting QB in the NFL is not what I would call success either. There are 32 QBs in the NFL, and realistically only about 20 (and I think that number is generous) have any staying power. I think all things considered, JM doesn't have the package to be successful. We will have to revisit this in 5 years to see if I'm wrong, but it is an interesting discussion.
 
#106
#106
BearCat204 said:
Feel free to show me any scout that says his arm is weak........surely there are plenty of links for this since "most scouts" have said his arm is weak.
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His weakness is that his arm strength is classified as average in the worst reviews of him. I'd be devastated if I had all the intangibles and my biggest weak link was being NFL average at something. All these posters are confusing what scouts are calling average as poor/weak/not NFL caliber.
 
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#108
#108
VFL1953 said:
Manning and McNair were coachable and played within their offensive schemes. The jury is certainly still out on RGIII. Didn't work real well for him in D.C. this year, did it? I will need to see more from Wilson and Newton before I compare them to Archie Manning. For that matter, someone in this thread already compared Manziel to Fran Tarkenton, lol. Premature, ya think?

I still say Manziel is undisciplined. He also can't seem to keep his mouth shut. Questionable leadership qualities IMO, and running around until a receiver breaks open does not equate to reading defenses well. It just speaks to the fact that DB's can't cover forever. NFL defenses will break Manziel.
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RG3 was in a bad situation this year coming off an injury and having a lame duck coach. Next year will be more telling for him.

I do think Manziel will need to change his attitude at least a little. Not because it's necessarily bad but if he tries to be that cocky as a rookie I don't see it working out well.
 
#109
#109
BearCat204 said:
Feel free to show me any scout that says his arm is weak........surely there are plenty of links for this since "most scouts" have said his arm is weak.
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Seriously? You cannot watch him and tell his arm strength is not great? He does not have the same velocity as Boyd, Winston, Petty, Broyles, Mettenberger, McCarron, Murray, or Bridgewater. It's pretty easy to see.

In college Manziel can get away with his scrambling antics and lucky rainbow throws. In the NFL that won't cut it. It's highly doubtful JM ever becomes a long term starter in the NFL. There have been more talented QBs than JM that have tried and failed.
 
#113
#113
BigOrangeTrain said:
Seriously? You cannot watch him and tell his arm strength is not great? He does not have the same velocity as Boyd, Winston, Petty, Broyles, Mettenberger, McCarron, Murray, or Bridgewater. It's pretty easy to see.

In college Manziel can get away with his scrambling antics and lucky rainbow throws. In the NFL that won't cut it. It's highly doubtful JM ever becomes a long term starter in the NFL. There have been more talented QBs than JM that have tried and failed.
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His arm strength is just fine, is it as great as some of those you mentioned? No, but he has the necessary tools to make it in the NFL. NFL teams and scouts simply dont agree with your professional assessment that he wont make it in the NFL.
 
#114
#114
I'd be much more worried about someone like AJ McCarron still having every detail of his life go through his mommy than I would Manziel's brashness. To claim that McCarron's arm is better than Manziel's is just laughable. On short passes, McCarron might be slightly more accurate, but if we're talking average arms that won't make it in the NFL, McCarron is the picture in the book used to illustrate what we're talking about. Manziel has more intangibles than Mettengberger and Broyles. Winston and Petty aren't going pro. Manziel has a way better football IQ than Boyd. Boyd is run first, pass second. Manziel knows how to break a defense down. Whether that's by faking the run to get a man open, leading a receiver or breaking down the linebackers into coverage to he can run. I'm not saying Manziel is definitley going to make it in the NFL, but he definitely has the tools to be likely the second qb taken. If Broyles lights up his pro day, he might jump Manziel, but no one else.
 
#115
#115
fade route said:
Does anyone else think it's insane that Manziel is being considered a legit prospect at QB in the NFL? I mean, that backyard football scramble gig usually works for about a week into summer camps in the NFL, and his arm strength is average at best. If he throws a deep out at full velocity in the NFL, it will get picked 9 times out of 10. I just don't get it how these scouts and talking heads get enamored with college level productive highlight reel players that have very few actual NFL skills or measurables.

Thoughts?
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Manziel has NFL talent. Is accurate, good arm, great team leader and the best pocket presence I have seen in yrs. He will be a good NFL QB.
 
#116
#116
volfanbill said:
I'd be much more worried about someone like AJ McCarron still having every detail of his life go through his mommy than I would Manziel's brashness. To claim that McCarron's arm is better than Manziel's is just laughable. On short passes, McCarron might be slightly more accurate, but if we're talking average arms that won't make it in the NFL, McCarron is the picture in the book used to illustrate what we're talking about. Manziel has more intangibles than Mettengberger and Broyles. Winston and Petty aren't going pro. Manziel has a way better football IQ than Boyd. Boyd is run first, pass second. Manziel knows how to break a defense down. Whether that's by faking the run to get a man open, leading a receiver or breaking down the linebackers into coverage to he can run. I'm not saying Manziel is definitley going to make it in the NFL, but he definitely has the tools to be likely the second qb taken. If Broyles lights up his pro day, he might jump Manziel, but no one else.
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Agreed!
 
#117
#117
Not going to work in the NFL long, IMHO Heck, all you have to do is what LSU did two years in a row, and LSU has a sub-par defense this year.

He is an incredible college talent but not the kind of talent that works in the NFL. IMHO

RG3 2.0 Good luck with that. Maybe, if he sat behind Drew Brees for a few years but I don't think he has a good enough arm.
 
#118
#118
I think the kid will do fine in the NFL...He has a lot of passion for the game and a great mind for it as well...I personally can't stand him but you can't deny he is one hell of a QB and is a lot of fun to watch.
 
#119
#119
VOLnMiami said:
I think the kid will do fine in the NFL...He has a lot of passion for the game and a great mind for it as well...I personally can't stand him but you can't deny he is one hell of a QB and is a lot of fun to watch.
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evidently not. Since people don't like him, they don't think he'll do well.
 
#120
#120
VOLnMiami said:
I think the kid will do fine in the NFL...He has a lot of passion for the game and a great mind for it as well...I personally can't stand him but you can't deny he is one hell of a QB and is a lot of fun to watch.
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I think he's a douche personally, but its hard to deny his skill set and what he brings to the table.
 
#121
#121
BearCat204 said:
His arm strength is just fine, is it as great as some of those you mentioned? No, but he has the necessary tools to make it in the NFL. NFL teams and scouts simply dont agree with your professional assessment that he wont make it in the NFL.
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That's OK because those same teams and scouts said the same thing about Jamarcus Russell, Andre Ware, Ryan Leaf, Rashaan Salaam, Danny Wuerffle, Tim Tebow, Gino Torretta, Ron Dayne and Ken Dorsey.
 
#122
#122
BigOrangeTrain said:
That's OK because those same teams and scouts said the same thing about Jamarcus Russell, Andre Ware, Ryan Leaf, Rashaan Salaam, Danny Wuerffle, Tim Tebow, Gino Torretta, Ron Dayne and Ken Dorsey.
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You could make the same list for qbs that made it that had questions coming out of college. Every qb has questions coming out.
 
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#124
#124
Volfan76 said:
Some team will take him but he will never do anything to speak of in the NFL.
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Worse than that, whoever gets him will probably find their franchise in a yearly QB controversy. Manziel is straight from the mold of Vince Young and Tim Tebow: The popular college quarterback whose skill set will never transfer to a high level in the NFL game.

But try telling that to the his legion of fans who will be clambering for him to play whether he deserves to or not.
 
#125
#125
Just quit hating on the kid and root for him, makes the games sooo much better. I think he is going to be great in the NFL
 
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