JP Prince to workout for Knicks

#76
#76
LawVol13 said:
In all seriousness, the only reason they made the playoffs is because how tough Baron Davis was. Swapping him and Curry has really paid dividends for them.
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Captain Jack had a whole bunch to do with Golden State's run that year. Another unquestioned tough guy who has some San Antonio championship jewelry.
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#77
#77
hatvol96 said:
Captain Jack had a whole bunch to do with Golden State's run that year. Another unquestioned tough guy who has some San Antonio championship jewelry.
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Absolutely right. He made a hell of an addition for the Bobcats as well.
 
#78
#78
LawVol13 said:
No one was arguing this. Like I said, execution is a given. Physicality is a separator. No one ever said, "You can completely suck offensively and defensively, but as long as you're putting people on their ass, then you're a lock for a ring."
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I still think that's ludicrous. The more physical team wins? What separated those Bulls teams in the mid-90s? They were NOT more physical than the Knicks or Pacers. They were physical enough to where their superior team work and talent won out. Same with the Spurs. Are you telling me they were the most physical team in the league four times? More than the Pistons? No way.
 
#79
#79
Unimane said:
I still think that's ludicrous. The more physical team wins? What separated those Bulls teams in the mid-90s? They were NOT more physical than the Knicks or Pacers. They were physical enough to where their superior team work and talent won out. Same with the Spurs. Are you telling me they were the most physical team in the league four times? More than the Pistons? No way.
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They were every bit as physical as the Pacers and Knicks. Their paint presence was brutal and defensively dominant when they finally started winning.
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#81
#81
BigPapaVol said:
They were every bit as physical as the Pacers and Knicks. Their paint presence was brutal and defensively dominant when they finally started winning.
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Ron Harper is also one of the two or three most physical perimeter defenders ever.
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#82
#82
Unimane said:
I still think that's ludicrous. The more physical team wins? What separated those Bulls teams in the mid-90s? They were NOT more physical than the Knicks or Pacers. They were physical enough to where their superior team work and talent won out. Same with the Spurs. Are you telling me they were the most physical team in the league four times? More than the Pistons? No way.
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Yes. Bruce Bowen and Stephen Jackson were badasses. Horry is as physical as it gets (remember him destroying Nash through the scorer's table).

As to the other part, the Bulls were physical too. They wouldn't have beaten the Knicks or Pacers if they weren't. The only real difference between the Knicks/Pacers and the Bulls was that one of them had Michael Jordan.
 
#83
#83
BigPapaVol said:
They were every bit as physical as the Pacers and Knicks. Their paint presence was brutal and defensively dominant when they finally started winning.
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No...no, they weren't. Luc Longley, Will Perdue and Bill Cartwright were not Mason, Oakley and McDaniel.
 
#84
#84
LawVol13 said:
The only real difference between the Knicks/Pacers and the Bulls was that one of them had Michael Jordan.
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As evidenced by the fact that they both parlayed Jordan's first two absences into trips to the Finals.
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#86
#86
LawVol13 said:
Yes. Bruce Bowen and Stephen Jackson were badasses. Horry is as physical as it gets (remember him destroying Nash through the scorer's table).
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Terry Cummings, Nair Muhammad, and Mario Elie would whip a man's ass, as well. Tim Duncan never his from contact, either.
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#87
#87
LawVol13 said:
Yes. Bruce Bowen and Stephen Jackson were badasses. Horry is as physical as it gets (remember him destroying Nash through the scorer's table).

As to the other part, the Bulls were physical too. They wouldn't have beaten the Knicks or Pacers if they weren't. The only real difference between the Knicks/Pacers and the Bulls was that one of them had Michael Jordan.
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Horry pushed Nash because he was pissy they lost a game. It didn't show toughness.

Otherwise, yeah, the Bulls had Jordan. And the Lakers had Magic, then Kobe and Shaq. The Heat had Wade and so on and so forth. So, are you arguing the reason for winning was the supreme talent or physicality?
 
#89
#89
Unimane said:
No...no, they weren't. Luc Longley, Will Perdue and Bill Cartwright were not Mason, Oakley and McDaniel.
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Bill Cartwright was a physical as anyone in the league, always. Longley and Perdue were fouls, because that's about all they had. Mason, Oakley and McDaniel were a solid group, but Oakley migrated away and Mason's toughness is overstated based upon persona. They still rolled Ewing out there to patrol the paint because your list was too small. X-man was a great and Oakley a hockey style enforcer, but those guys weren't more physical. Riley tried to make them so and it worked to a degree, but the anchor just wasn't. Chicago's anchor was. Adding Oakley took it to a new level.
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#90
#90
Unimane said:
Horry pushed Nash because he was pissy they lost a game. It didn't show toughness.

Otherwise, yeah, the Bulls had Jordan. And the Lakers had Magic, then Kobe and Shaq. The Heat had Wade and so on and so forth. So, are you arguing the reason for winning was the supreme talent or physicality?
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First, let's discuss your implication that the Brown's Pistons' were tougher than the Spurs. Who's tougher: Bruce Bowen and Stephen Jackson or Anorexic Rip Hamilton and Anorexic Tashawn Prince? Or Tim Duncan or Rasheed Wallace?

To the second part. I'm arguing that physicality wins. Besides the Lakers have Shaq and Kobe, they also had Derek Fisher and Ron Harper. The Heat had Shaq and Wade but also had guys like Alonzo Mourning and Gary Payton.

The Mav's roster was more talented than the Heat's. But the difference was the physicality.
 
#91
#91
LawVol13 said:
First, let's discuss your implication that the Brown's Pistons' were tougher than the Spurs. Who's tougher: Bruce Bowen and Stephen Jackson or Anorexic Rip Hamilton and Anorexic Tashawn Prince? Or Tim Duncan or Rasheed Wallace?

To the second part. I'm arguing that physicality wins. Besides the Lakers have Shaq and Kobe, they also had Derek Fisher and Ron Harper. The Heat had Shaq and Wade but also had guys like Alonzo Mourning and Gary Payton.

The Mav's roster was more talented than the Heat's. But the difference was the physicality.
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The common thread between the Lakers threepeat and the Heat title? The most physical player in league history .
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#92
#92
BigPapaVol said:
Bill Cartwright was a physical as anyone in the league, always.
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There are a whole generation of centers with the scars, crooked noses, and missing teeth that can attest to that.
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#94
#94
BigPapaVol said:
Bill Cartwright was a physical as anyone in the league, always. Longley and Perdue were fouls, because that's about all they had. Mason, Oakley and McDaniel were a solid group, but Oakley migrated away and Mason's toughness is overstated based upon persona. They still rolled Ewing out there to patrol the paint because your list was too small. X-man was a great and Oakley a hockey style enforcer, but those guys weren't more physical. Riley tried to make them so and it worked to a degree, but the anchor just wasn't. Chicago's anchor was. Adding Oakley took it to a new level.
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X, Oak, and Mason were only together under Riley for one year. They took the Bulls to seven games. Then, Riles lost his mind and cast his lot with vaginitis victim Charles Smith.
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#95
#95
BigPapaVol said:
Bill Cartwright was a physical as anyone in the league, always. Longley and Perdue were fouls, because that's about all they had. Mason, Oakley and McDaniel were a solid group, but Oakley migrated away and Mason's toughness is overstated based upon persona. They still rolled Ewing out there to patrol the paint because your list was too small. X-man was a great and Oakley a hockey style enforcer, but those guys weren't more physical. Riley tried to make them so and it worked to a degree, but the anchor just wasn't. Chicago's anchor was. Adding Oakley took it to a new level.
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What are you arguing here? You say that Oakley (and others) weren't more physical, but then say "Oakley took it to a new level". Which is it?

Otherwise, your argument for the Bulls being as physical as the Knicks is suspect. It consists of skinny Bill Cartwright being a physical presence alongside two 7 foot relative stiffs in Longley and Perdue.
 
#96
#96
Unimane said:
What are you arguing here? You say that Oakley (and others) weren't more physical, but then say "Oakley took it to a new level". Which is it?

Otherwise, your argument for the Bulls being as physical as the Knicks is suspect. It consists of skinny Bill Cartwright being a physical presence alongside two 7 foot relative stiffs in Longley and Perdue.
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Oakley added the enforcer to the Bulls that they lacked.

Your description of Cartqright says you know nothing of his game. He was the beat defensive center out there and it wasn't togas horse rap blocked shot gibberish. Guy's legs were strong as a mule and he positioned better than everyone.

Those stiffs were both seven feet and banged because they couldn't do anything else. Not sure this is as toig as you want to make it out to be.

Your stylish and athletic argument disnt win the Bulls dick until they found somebody to kill it in the paint.
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#99
#99
BigPapaVol said:
Oakley added the enforcer to the Bulls that they lacked.

Your description of Cartqright says you know nothing of his game. He was the beat defensive center out there and it wasn't togas horse rap blocked shot gibberish. Guy's legs were strong as a mule and he positioned better than everyone.

Those stiffs were both seven feet and banged because they couldn't do anything else. Not sure this is as toig as you want to make it out to be.

Your stylish and athletic argument disnt win the Bulls dick until they found somebody to kill it in the paint.
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Seriously, is it possible for your circle to argue a point without resorting to the arrogant "you know nothing about basketball" mantra? Just argue the point and quit being dicks, ok?

And, on that point, your argument for Cartwright being physical is to say he positioned himself well and had strong legs? Cartwright serviced the Bulls well and had as sharp of elbows as any player I can remember, but he was not more physical than anyone down low on the Pacers or Knicks, even a Rik Smits.

Otherwise, the Bulls had Oakley in the lane as the enforcer when the Bulls weren't winning titles. They won titles when Jordan learned to rely on his teammates as well as effectively pair with Pippen. It wasn't because Luc Longley or Bill Cartwright were the missing pieces of the puzzle.
 
#100
#100
Unimane said:
Seriously, is it possible for your circle to argue a point without resorting to the arrogant "you know nothing about basketball" mantra? Just argue the point and quit being dicks, ok?

And, on that point, your argument for Cartwright being physical is to say he positioned himself well and had strong legs? Cartwright serviced the Bulls well and had as sharp of elbows as any player I can remember, but he was not more physical than anyone down low on the Pacers or Knicks, even a Rik Smits.

Otherwise, the Bulls had Oakley in the lane as the enforcer when the Bulls weren't winning titles. They won titles when Jordan learned to rely on his teammates as well as effectively pair with Pippen. It wasn't because Luc Longley or Bill Cartwright were the missing pieces of the puzzle.
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I'm with BPV. The Bulls didn't win until they got some posts to battle in the paint. I don't buy the "Jordan learned to lean on his teammates" crap either. It's not like Jordan's scoring average went down, or he was passing it off to Kukoc for buzzer beaters.
 
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