Just trying to understand the "we can't fire Zo if we make tourney in any capacity"

#176
#176
NYC Vol said:
My bad. I knew the number 19 was in there somewhere and that he missed 2 tourneys. Thought it was 19 tourneys in 21 years. Obviously I was wrong. Make that 17 of 19 years he was in the NCAAs. The other two, when he was at UW-M, were NIT bids. I think the only time he finished below 3rd in his conference (though in the SEC it was East/West) was his last year when it was 5th.

My original point is that I don't think anyone is doing Zo any justice when trying to compare him to Pearl. If people think he should get more time, that's fine. I'll listen to arguments. But if one is going to compare him to Pearl, their argument is automatically dismissed for complete idiocy.
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I agree. Not only can you not compare them, it is completely unreasonable to have the expectation that Martin should make the tourney every year like Pearl did and like only a handful of coaches have done.

Pearl had 14 years to work on his David versus Goliath routine. He had played against the big boys in pressure situations.

I understand why people are frustrated, and if people want to give him the boot, that's fine too. He is winning and despite his lack of experience he's had some good games against the best coaches in the league. He's not as terrible as people are making him out to be. Comparing him to Houston, Raleigh and Dooley when he's got a winning percentage right about where Don DeVoe's is disrespectful and unfair.
 
#177
#177
vol66 said:
I agree. Not only can you not compare them, it is completely unreasonable to have the expectation that Martin should make the tourney every year like Pearl did and like only a handful of coaches have done.

Pearl had 14 years to work on his David versus Goliath routine. He had played against the big boys in pressure situations.

I understand why people are frustrated, and if people want to give him the boot, that's fine too. He is winning and despite his lack of experience he's had some good games against the best coaches in the league. He's not as terrible as people are making him out to be. Comparing him to Houston, Raleigh and Dooley when he's got a winning percentage right about where Don DeVoe's is disrespectful and unfair.
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He is exactly like Devoe......that's the problem
 
#178
#178
volbeast33 said:
He is exactly like Devoe......that's the problem
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If he wins 23 games or makes the tourney , either of those or both, before his fifth season, he's better than DeVoe.

DeVoe had been a coach for seven years (1 tourney)before he went on his tourney run in the early years of his UT tenure.
 
#179
#179
vol66 said:
If he wins 23 games or makes the tourney , either of those or both, before his fifth season, he's better than DeVoe.

DeVoe had been a coach for seven years (1 tourney)before he went on his tourney run in the early years of his UT tenure.
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Mmmmmm unless I'm counting wrong then this is yr six for Martin
 
#180
#180
For one thing, neither Lofton nor C. J. nor Bradshaw nor Jermere Hendrix were four stars and JaJuan was a walk on. Wingate and Patterson had been four stars.

k-town_king said:
You have no idea what you are talking about. What did I say that is bs or a half truth?

Pearl inherited a whole starting five of four stars who had played and all averaged at least 5.5 ppg. Also Lofton who was a freshman AA . Both his big men averaged over a block a game. Lofton led the SEC in threes before Pearl.
.
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#182
#182
VolsSportsFan said:
You counting Pearl as crap?
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Pearl is a good coach , 10 times better than Martin. I do believe he got into a little trouble during his time at UT so overall he did not work out. I would take him back in a heartbeat. :)

I had actually forgot MH hired him.
 
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#183
#183
volbeast33 said:
Mmmmmm unless I'm counting wrong then this is yr six for Martin
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well...I thought it might be a more fair to start the clock once Martin was at a major conference, but by the other standard, he's better than DeVoe...he won 24 and 26 games in his 2nd and 3rd season at MS, he had a conference championship, 3 NIT's in 5 years compared to 1 NIT and 1 NCAA in DeVoe's first 7 years.
 
#184
#184
white65 said:
Give me Pearl or give me death!
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The chances of getting of getting Bruce back are very slim and I'll be surprised if the NCAA lets him coach again. I'd like to have him back too or soeone similar to coach K, someone who can light a fire into the team. Would like to see where we can get some top 10 players around the country and get into the top 10 in the country. That would mean winning 28 or more games a season. Been awhile since UT has done that.
Seems that the only time recently that the men's team was as good as the Lady Vols was when Bruce was at UT.
 
#185
#185
TennFan said:
The chances of getting of getting Bruce back are very slim and I'll be surprised if the NCAA lets him coach again. I'd like to have him back too or soeone similar to coach K, someone who can light a fire into the team. Would like to see where we can get some top 10 players around the country and get into the top 10 in the country. That would mean winning 28 or more games a season. Been awhile since UT has done that.
Seems that the only time recently that the men's team was as good as the Lady Vols was when Bruce was at UT.
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In 105 years of Tennessee basketball we won 28 games or more 1 time, 31...the 07-08 season, yes it was Pearl. One time. 1. Uno... in one hundred and five years.
 
#186
#186
vol66 said:
well...I thought it might be a more fair to start the clock once Martin was at a major conference, but by the other standard, he's better than DeVoe...he won 24 and 26 games in his 2nd and 3rd season at MS, he had a conference championship, 3 NIT's in 5 years compared to 1 NIT and 1 NCAA in DeVoe's first 7 years.
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I disagree.....for starters.....va tech was called virginia polytech institute or something like that and was a much smaller program back then....they also were independent and didnt have a conference. Making the NCAA meant more as only 30+ teams made the tournament....also the NIT still meant a little something back then.
 
#187
#187
volbeast33 said:
I disagree.....for starters.....va tech was called virginia polytech institute or something like that and was a much smaller program back then....they also were independent and didnt have a conference. Making the NCAA meant more as only 30+ teams made the tournament....also the NIT still meant a little something back then.
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Don DeVoe took Navy...NAVY... to 3 NCAA appearances, no other coach in Navy history has done that, they haven't been to the tourney since he left.

When I'm comparing Martin to DeVoe it's out of respect, post season is post season and wins are wins.
 
#188
#188
vol66 said:
In 105 years of Tennessee basketball we won 28 games or more 1 time, 31...the 07-08 season, yes it was Pearl. One time. 1. Uno... in one hundred and five years.
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Lol. Seriously, I am going to call it the "Bruce Pearl Effect." I loved Bruce, too. But some of our fans, maybe they followed basketball closely or not, now expect our program to do things they have never or hardly ever do. It is amazing what people expect.
 
#189
#189
TennFan said:
The chances of getting of getting Bruce back are very slim and I'll be surprised if the NCAA lets him coach again. I'd like to have him back too or soeone similar to coach K, someone who can light a fire into the team. Would like to see where we can get some top 10 players around the country and get into the top 10 in the country. That would mean winning 28 or more games a season. Been awhile since UT has done that.
Seems that the only time recently that the men's team was as good as the Lady Vols was when Bruce was at UT.
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He'd be coaching right now if a school wanted to accept the penalties that come with his contract til august.
You'll be seeing him soon. Just not here.
 
#190
#190
Ronny Swanson said:
Incessant references that we aren't coached in any phase of the game. He basically said what every person that knows anything about basketball sees on an every game basis.
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You must be hearing what you want to hear because I have not heard JD say anything like that about CCM all season. In fact, just the opposite.
 
#191
#191
VolGee4 said:
Lol. Seriously, I am going to call it the "Bruce Pearl Effect." I loved Bruce, too. But some of our fans, maybe they followed basketball closely or not, now expect our program to do things they have never or hardly ever do. It is amazing what people expect.
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Consistent tourney appearances and top 25 recruiting should be the minimal expectations at every high major school
 
#192
#192
volbeast33 said:
Consistent tourney appearances and top 25 recruiting should be the minimal expectations at every high major school
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I understand your stance, and I will continue to understand it. You don't have to rehash it. That is not necessarily what I am referring to. People expect things now that never happened at UT.
 
#193
#193
17-13, 10-17, 11-17...should this guy get fired?

The team has lost 17 games back to back!

I know Coach Martin lost 20 games his first season coaching, but his next two teams won 20 + games. Martin won 19 and 20 games his first two seasons at Tennessee.

Reckon when Coach K was losing those 17 games two years in a row people thought he'd win 24 the next and go to the tourney 11 straight times and win 2 Titles.

No I'm not saying that Martin is the next Coach K, but give the guy a break he's had 2 and 3/4 seasons.
 
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#194
#194
vol66 said:
17-13, 10-17, 11-17...should this guy get fired?

The team has lost 17 games back to back!

I know Coach Martin lost 20 games his first season coaching, but his next two teams won 20 + games. Martin won 19 and 20 games his first two seasons at Tennessee.

Reckon when Coach K was losing those 17 games two years in a row people thought he'd win 24 the next and go to the tourney 11 straight times and win 2 Titles.

No I'm not saying that Martin is the next Coach K, but give the guy a break he's had 2 and 3/4 seasons.
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In before 5 and 3/4
 
#195
#195
VolGee4 said:
I understand your stance, and I will continue to understand it. You don't have to rehash it. That is not necessarily what I am referring to. People expect things now that never happened at UT.
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Two things:

1) not quite true - Mears did similar things; DeVoe did his first 5 seasons; Jerry Green had similar accomplishments.

2) What's wrong with high expectations?

Now, reality is, doesn't matter what we fans expect as long as the admin doesn't have high aspirations for the bb program. Pretty sure CCM's record and low key style is just what they want.
 
#196
#196
My posts regarding 28 wins or more was not correct, 28 and 31 games, Bruce...so 2 times in 105 years. apologies.
 
#198
#198
omghulkhands said:
What tilts me so much is that we have better players than year one under CCM, all of our players are improved overall outside Maymon (Jordan, Josh and Jarnell have all vastly improved as players individually and statistically) and our results in year 3 are just barely improved from year 1.
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If we end the year in the NIT you'll have a point. So far Martin is on pace to have improved each year he has been here.
 
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