Justin Hunter and the morality behind post-injury play

#26
#26
Someone is getting ready to make a huge decision Thursday with their draft pick of Clowney. If you watch the films last year, he took a lot of plays "off". That said, he also looked like a beast against us because we tried to finesse him and he didn't bite. Worley doesn't tuck the ball and run alot on the read option, and Clowney knew that and he made ours RBs pay dearly. Ultimately, he will get his wish, he has a big payday coming. Spurrier had his back during the year also taking the loafing in stride. But when he had to come up big, he usually did. But, He might become the next Haynesworth. We'll see.
 
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#28
#28
volfaninutah said:
Someone is getting ready to make a huge decision Thursday with their draft pick of Clowney. If you watch the films last year, he took a lot of plays "off". That said, he also looked like a beast against us because we tried to finesse him and he didn't bite. Worley doesn't tuck the ball and run alot on the read option, and Clowney knew that and he made ours RBs pay dearly. Ultimately, he will get his wish, he has a big payday coming. Spurrier had his back during the year also taking the loafing in stride. But when he had to come up big, he usually did. But, He might become the next Haynesworth. We'll see.
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I'd love to see the "film" of every d-linemen in the SEC to see how many of them truly went full speed on every play into the 4th qtr. I'd bet that we'd find that Clowney didn't really loaf as much as advertised compared to everybody else.
 
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#29
#29
GAVol said:
I'd love to see the "film" of every d-linemen in the SEC to see how many of them truly went full speed on every play into the 4th qtr. I'd bet that we'd find that Clowney didn't really loaf as much as advertised compared to everybody else.
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Clowney has the sort of talent that only comes around 3 or 4 times in a generation. If you don't think he was mailing it in, you weren't paying much attention.
 
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#30
#30
the mental part is sometimes harder to overcome than the physical...its always in the back of your mind...very few people are as good 1 year after ACL surgery as they are 2 years after...
 
#31
#31
chatt-townVOL said:
Yes it is. Is it morally right to take scholarship money from your university, and in turn not put full effort into your play in order to benefit yourself in your future?
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Yes it is

I'd take hunters 75% over our whole receiving corp. 100% last year, besides North.
 
#32
#32
Neyland Law Vol said:
gsp_quotes.jpg
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You can talk about hunters fear all day long, he's laughing all the way to the bank.
 
#33
#33
Protecting himself and going at the top of the 2nd round and producing in the NFL helps Tennessee. Enjoying himself in Knoxville is paying off for us right now because he's half the reason Von Pearson is in orange.

I hate that he dropped some huge passes, but I don't blame him for struggling through some times while still putting up monster numbers.
 
#34
#34
apevol said:
Clowney has the sort of talent that only comes around 3 or 4 times in a generation. If you don't think he was mailing it in, you weren't paying much attention.
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I don't think he is saying that Clowney didn't take plays off. I think he is saying most D-Lineman do at some point.
 
#35
#35
Damn. Digging up some old memories huh? There's absolutely no question hunter was never the same player after the injury. Prior to the injury, he was poised to be one of the most dominant receivers I can ever remember. He was completely uncoverable. We he came back he just didn't have the wreck less abandoned attitude. He still had the explosiveness, just not the attitude. It sucks because so many people would do anything to have those tools, and he was to some degree afraid to use them. But at the end of the day hunter was a great kid that represented our program well. I wish him nothing but the best
 
#36
#36
So i guess according to this thread it is fine if all of our star players likely to be drafted in the NFL go at 75% thier junior and senior year just so they can make sure they get paid when the draft comes?

I think good coaches help players focus on the now rather than getting paid in the future. You don't see Bama's players that are in line to be drafted not giving their all - Saban would bench them. I think Butch has the same additude. If you don't give 100% he will play the next man that will.
 
#37
#37
Neyland Law Vol said:
So i guess according to this thread it is fine if all of our star players likely to be drafted in the NFL go at 75% thier junior and senior year just so they can make sure they get paid when the draft comes?

I think good coaches help players focus on the now rather than getting paid in the future. You don't see Bama's players that are in line to be drafted not giving their all - Saban would bench them. I think Butch has the same additude. If you don't give 100% he will play the next man that will.
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Most players have NFL dreams and ambitions.

Most posters on here only care what they give while wearing orange and then are (a) quick to discard them for the next crop (b) tweet/post death threats when they have a bad game (c) only care about what the fan is getting out of them putting their body/career on the line

Spin the "give 100% or go to hell" speech all you want, but deep down you don't give a damn about any of these kids when they aren't giving you only what you want.
 
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#38
#38
ntxVOL said:
Depth fixes this problem, if there is enough talent behind that player then he can't sandbag. But it seems we see this a lot these days, I thought the same thing of Clowney last season. No, I do not like it but who am I to judge?
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Didn't fix Jamal's issues post injury. Mainly because Phil didn't have the nads to bench him.
 
#39
#39
chatt-townVOL said:
Just some off-season discussion, but all the talk about this receiving corp has got me thinking about some of our more recent players, including Hunter.

I think most would agree 2010-2011 Hunter was a different player than "post-ACL" 2012 Hunter. Hunter still had a great year in 2012, but before he went down it seemed like he was shaping up to be one of the best receivers in UT history. He was fast, tall, athletic, and would sacrifice himself to make the catch. The truth is pre-injury Hunter would go through a defender or over a defender to make the catch, especially if it was for 6. 2012 Hunter seemed to spend a great portion of his year avoiding contact. Often times he would catch the ball and go down when he could have picked up 10 more, and I'm pretty sure at least once a game he would step backwards after the catch to avoid contact instead of just diving forward. Don't get me wrong, I was a huge Hunter fan, but it's hard to deny what we all saw in 2012.

This brings me to the morality issue. Granted, gun-shyness is a real thing. I have no doubt he was scared of landing wrong or taking a bad hit, but I think it's also safe to assume he had his pro career in mind. So my question is, is it wrong to play "softer" to try to avoid injury if your pro career is right around the corner?

At first glance the answer would seem to be "yes", but then again, a player like Hunter has probably had pro football on his mind ever since he was told he has the potential to get there. Kids all the time are told "don't base your decisions in school around the assumption you can make it in the pros" but let's be honest, they still do. So how many of us would sacrifice our future career for the good of Tennessee football? I love Tennessee, but I sure wouldn't. On the other hand the argument can be made that UT was essentially "paying" him (via scholarship) to come play. My wife and I will be paying for the rest of our lives on her student loans from UT, meanwhile Hunter was going for free, and UT was letting him go for free under the assumption that he would give his all to help advance the football program. From that perspective, playing soft to avoid injury is essentially not holding up your end of the deal.

Anyways like I said, just some offseason discussion, but is it morally wrong to play soft after injury to assure a lucrative career in the pros, or is it justifiable?
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Was this really necessary?
 
#41
#41
Domestic Silence said:
Most players have NFL dreams and ambitions.

Most posters on here only care what they give while wearing orange and then are (a) quick to discard them for the next crop (b) tweet/post death threats when they have a bad game (c) only care about what the fan is getting out of them putting their body/career on the line

Spin the "give 100% or go to hell" speech all you want, but deep down you don't give a damn about any of these kids when they aren't giving you only what you want.
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Whether I "give a damn" about "these kids" shouldn't matter. What matters is whether the players on scholarship should be starting if they aren't putting forth thier best effort for the team each snap. I don't think Butch would put up with less than 100% - those players looking toward the draft would be benched. Thereafter, they would likely come back going all out next game if they want to continue to play. Coaching is the eashy fix for this.

Remember the PeachBowl 2003: The players on our loaded roster were thinking about thier draft status rather than trying to beat 2003, and as a result a team that should have ended up in the top 5 got drilled. (Also see previous year and loss to Maryland)

Thus, the point is, those players like Hunter or Jamal, etc are free to refrain from giving 100% to make sure they "get Paid", but likewise the Coach is also free to bench them.
 
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#42
#42
neyland law vol said:
whether i "give a damn" about "these kids" shouldn't matter. What matters is whether the players on scholarship should be starting if they aren't putting forth thier best effort for the team each snap. I don't think butch would put up with less than 100% - those players looking toward the draft would be benched for a game and they would likely come back the next game going all out next game. Coaching fixes this.

Remembe the peachbowl 2003 when the players on our loaded roster were thinking about thier draft status rather than trying to beat clemson and the team got drilled.

Thus, the point is, those players like hunter or jamal, etc are free to refrain from giving 100% to make sure they "get paid", but likewise the coach is also free to bench them.
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oh noes!?? Hunter caught a 30 yard pass, he stepped back and lost 2 yards!!

That son of a *****!!!!
 
#43
#43
Vol4life25 said:
oh noes!?? Hunter caught a 30 yard pass, he stepped back and lost 2 yards!!

That son of a *****!!!!
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So you are ok with a coach starting a player that he knows is not going to try his best and has a "me first" Attitude?

Maybe if we had another player in the game they would have caught the pass and ran for a TD and that would have made the difference in winning and losing the game?
 
#45
#45
Not every CFB player has a wealthy father a la Peyton Manning who can afford to take out a 10 million dollar Llloyd's of London insurance policy on them.
 
#47
#47
:thumbsup:
Neyland Law Vol said:
So you are ok with a coach starting a player that he knows is not going to try his best and has a "me first" Attitude?

Maybe if we had another player in the game they would have caught the pass and ran for a TD and that would have made the difference in winning and losing the game?
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What if Hunter did give 100%, tore his ACL again and never played football again.. What would you tell him?

Watch "The best that never was" 30for30. That guy gave 100%....he's a truck driver now.
 
#48
#48
Neyland Law Vol said:
Whether I "give a damn" about "these kids" shouldn't matter. What matters is whether the players on scholarship should be starting if they aren't putting forth thier best effort for the team each snap. I don't think Butch would put up with less than 100% - those players looking toward the draft would be benched. Thereafter, they would likely come back going all out next game if they want to continue to play. Coaching is the eashy fix for this.

Remember the PeachBowl 2003: The players on our loaded roster were thinking about thier draft status rather than trying to beat 2003, and as a result a team that should have ended up in the top 5 got drilled. (Also see previous year and loss to Maryland)

Thus, the point is, those players like Hunter or Jamal, etc are free to refrain from giving 100% to make sure they "get Paid", but likewise the Coach is also free to bench them.
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This isn't a 162-game season. You can't bench a kid for a game for not running out a fly ball. With 12 games on your schedule, you deal with people returning from injury and playing the self-preservation game. 1 game does not equal an entire career. The good that Hunter can do as a good pro football player far outweighs one loss in college, and this is coming from a person who blames the Missouri loss on Hunter, not Dooley.
 
#49
#49
I think it makes a good argument for the NFL to draft kids sooner, even out of high school. Those few are not in it (CFB) for the right reasons anyway and are a stain on the game we all love.
 
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