Kavanaugh Confirmation

[T-TownVol]

In other words... the marketplace became a mess as predicted but it's not your fault because at least you had a bad idea..

Don't forget, gained votes.

 

[Mick]

Dems pass ****** legislation but it’s the Rs fault because they didn’t fix it?

What was the rallying cry against a federal solution to the problem? That's right, it should be left up to the states. States Pissed their own bed if you ask me.

 

[LouderVol]

What was the rallying cry against a federal solution to the problem? That's right, it should be left up to the states. States Pissed their own bed if you ask me.

no the democrats pissed in everyone else's bed.

 

[luthervol]

@luthervol
the underlined is what we should want. that was pre ACA.

the bolded is the issue. ACA came in in 2014 & 2015 and jumped costs way up, but they have somewhat corrected in 16 & 17 so you call it a victory. even though what we are paying now in 16 and 17 still far out paces the inflation growth from 2008.

the study you have posted has done nothing but hurt your case. the only positives it has is that 16 & 17 are better than 14 & 15. not that 16 & 17 are better than before 14.

So for 4 years under Obama, (3 under the ACA) we got what we should want, but once the house and senate were lost and all efforts to tweak the system were thwarted and the repubs did all within their power to demonize and destroy the ACA, things started getting worse?

 

[C-south]

So for 4 years under Obama, (3 under the ACA) we got what we should want, but once the house and senate were lost and all efforts to tweak the system were thwarted and the repubs did all within their power to demonize and destroy the ACA, things started getting worse?

It was an abomination from the start. There were no “tweaks” that could’ve fixed it.

 

[RockyTop85]

So, the Dems had complete control, wouldn't look at any alternatives, passed crappy legislation, figured out it was crap (all the delays) and still with complete control didn't fix it. Yet it's the Rs fault? I got that right?

I do agree with you that after 6 years it was utter incompetence not to have a replacement bill ready to pass day 1 of Trumps presidency. Probably the main reason they lost the house.

My recollection is that the republicans refused to engage in the ACA debates. It was something I pseudo-supported at the time. I’m not and was not a fan of the ACA.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

It was an abomination from the start. There were no “tweaks” that could’ve fixed it.

Tweak is code for throw more money at it.

 

[LouderVol]

So for 4 years under Obama, (3 under the ACA) we got what we should want, but once the house and senate were lost and all efforts to tweak the system were thwarted and the repubs did all within their power to demonize and destroy the ACA, things started getting worse?

I seriously don't think anything you posted is correct.

there is only 1 year (2013) that is better. everything after ACA the numbers went up. and it has never gotten back down to pre-ACA days.

if it was such a great thing it would be successful more than 4/35 quarters. even if you want to drop the 2017/18 results because the Republicans didn't fix your perfect system it was still only "successful for 4/28 quarters. that's abysmal. and that's from the very first chart in your link.

that's a 14% success rate at best. and 11% at worst.

Q4 2016 was 5.8% growth, except for Q1 2017 (6.5%) the growth rate has been less under the demonizing Republicans than where it ended with the Democrats.

its bad, it started bad when the Democrats wouldn't work with anyone or even let them know what was in it. It continued being terrible with a flubbed launch, poor reception, and lesser turnout/support than expected. It has stayed bad under the Republicans because the Democrats won't let any real changes come in. Its like blaming Obama for Afghanistan and Iraq when it was really Bush's fault.

you can't really fix a system that has a 14% (at best) success rate. in the real world, something like that gets thrown out, and no one complains because it was obviously a failure. however you start a welfare program with a 14% success rate and politicians will line up to die on that hill.

whats worse is that in 28 of the 35 quarters ACA actually made the problem worse. so not only does it have an abysmal success rate of 14%; it has an appalling 80% rate of making the issue worse. that's a net rate of making things worse 66% of the time. *and this doesn't even take into account the rate at which things were worse vs when they were better. 6.5% was 3.5% higher than inflation, while the lowest was only 1.3% below inflation (1.7%)

the only way to fix something like that is to burn it down, we are literally throwing good money after bad. and in fact it seems like the desired result is to speed up how much good money we throw away.

 

[luthervol]

I seriously don't think anything you posted is correct.

there is only 1 year (2013) that is better. everything after ACA the numbers went up. and it has never gotten back down to pre-ACA days.

if it was such a great thing it would be successful more than 4/35 quarters. even if you want to drop the 2017/18 results because the Republicans didn't fix your perfect system it was still only "successful for 4/28 quarters. that's abysmal. and that's from the very first chart in your link.

that's a 14% success rate at best. and 11% at worst.

Q4 2016 was 5.8% growth, except for Q1 2017 (6.5%) the growth rate has been less under the demonizing Republicans than where it ended with the Democrats.

its bad, it started bad when the Democrats wouldn't work with anyone or even let them know what was in it. It continued being terrible with a flubbed launch, poor reception, and lesser turnout/support than expected. It has stayed bad under the Republicans because the Democrats won't let any real changes come in. Its like blaming Obama for Afghanistan and Iraq when it was really Bush's fault.

you can't really fix a system that has a 14% (at best) success rate. in the real world, something like that gets thrown out, and no one complains because it was obviously a failure. however you start a welfare program with a 14% success rate and politicians will line up to die on that hill.

whats worse is that in 28 of the 35 quarters ACA actually made the problem worse. so not only does it have an abysmal success rate of 14%; it has an appalling 80% rate of making the issue worse. that's a net rate of making things worse 66% of the time. *and this doesn't even take into account the rate at which things were worse vs when they were better. 6.5% was 3.5% higher than inflation, while the lowest was only 1.3% below inflation (1.7%)

the only way to fix something like that is to burn it down, we are literally throwing good money after bad. and in fact it seems like the desired result is to speed up how much good money we throw away.

You missed the whole point. What happened in the 2010 elections.? Modifications, adjustments, additions, and corrections needed to made. Repubs. had no interest in helping to do these things but were motivated to do just the opposite - destroy the ACA. Had they helped to make it better, those results you are providing would have been different.

 

[hog88]

You missed the whole point. What happened in the 2010 elections.? Modifications, adjustments, additions, and corrections needed to made. Repubs. had no interest in helping to do these things but were motivated to do just the opposite - destroy the ACA. Had they helped to make it better, those results you are providing would have been different.

You don't repair a total loss, you scrap it and move on.

 

[luthervol]

You don't repair a total loss, you scrap it and move on.

Time will tell.

 

[hog88]

Time will tell.

It already has.

 

[luthervol]

It already has.

Nope - the system is far from fixed. It's worse than it was and worse than it would have been.

 

[hog88]

Nope - the system is far from fixed. It's worse than it was and worse than it would have been.

I didn't say the system is fixed, it will never be fixed until providers are allowed to refuse service to those that can't pay. That is step 1 in fixing it.

I'm saying ACA was an unfixable disaster from day 1 and that is a fact.

 

[05_never_again]

You missed the whole point. What happened in the 2010 elections.? Modifications, adjustments, additions, and corrections needed to made. Repubs. had no interest in helping to do these things but were motivated to do just the opposite - destroy the ACA. Had they helped to make it better, those results you are providing would have been different.

I think you're missing the point. You're forgetting that from 2009-11 Dems had filibuster-proof majorities in both the House and Senate. Obama was elected on a mandate more or less. They could have passed any healthcare bill they wanted and there wasn't a thing Republicans could do to obstruct. Obama himself campaigned on universal single payer, then a public option, during the campaign. The bill that was passed had neither of those things. It was pushed through in a purely partisan fashion. Why? Because they could. A lot of progressives said the law was watered down, it didn't address this or that, etc. They have nobody to blame but the Dems for that. I think because of the Congressional majorities lots of progressives thought the bill that ended up getting passed would be a far left wet dream, but it was far from that, hence the disappointment.

Republicans got control of the House back in 2010 primarily due to blowback about Obamacare. You disagree with their views on the law, but that is what happened. If Republicans then obstructed and tried to dismantle the law, guess what, that's democracy. They think it's a bad law and many want it totally repealed - you don't try to make such a law "better" if that's what you believe. Dems would do the same thing to a piece of Republican legislation they didn't like. Elections have consequences.

 

[LouderVol]

Nope - the system is far from fixed. It's worse than it was and worse than it would have been.

no, no no. I went over this already. the numbers you provided show that we are better off than we were with ACA under Obama.

 

[LouderVol]

You missed the whole point. What happened in the 2010 elections.? Modifications, adjustments, additions, and corrections needed to made. Repubs. had no interest in helping to do these things but were motivated to do just the opposite - destroy the ACA. Had they helped to make it better, those results you are providing would have been different.

better in this case is killing it. especially as all ACA has done is make matters worse.

there is no way to fix the system as initially designed. none. it was designed to fail, and in that matter it was designed perfectly.

at some point you have to recognize that the government's intervention just made things worse than they were. (for the sake of argument drop whose fault it is just so you can be somewhat objective). why would you think more of what caused this issue would make things better?

 

[37L1]

ACA was designed to lead to Single Payer Medical Care.

You know it; we all know it. Stop being disingenuous about it.

 

[Boston Vol]

At least they tried.

All 83 ethics complaints against Brett Kavanaugh dismissed

 

[Orange_Crush]

Obamacare signups are lagging last year by 10%. Democrats say it’s because the marketing budget has been cut so people don’t know to sign up. Now you’d think since healthcare is apparently a life or death necessity the people needing to sign up could bother to set a reminder on their phone or put a post it somewhere. Or think back to the year before and say hmm didn’t I have to do something about my insurance around this time? If Obama is having to tweet to remind you to get health insurance it must not be that big a deal.

If you have to punish people for not signing up, it must be a ****ty product that not many people want.

 

[volfanjustin]

At least they tried.

All 83 ethics complaints against Brett Kavanaugh dismissed

People need to be charged for the crap they pulled here

 

[Orange_Crush]

So for 4 years under Obama, (3 under the ACA) we got what we should want, but once the house and senate were lost and all efforts to tweak the system were thwarted and the repubs did all within their power to demonize and destroy the ACA, things started getting worse?

Everyone take note of the leftist montra. Obama and the democratic congress lied to the American people, lied to the Supreme Court, forcibly shoved an unconstitutional abomination on the people when given unrestrained political power...the ends justified the means...not to give America what we want, b to force on us what they say we should want.

And the SJWs lap it up and push the narrative as though we're the idiots.

 

[luthervol]

@luthervol
the underlined is what we should want. that was pre ACA.

the bolded is the issue. ACA came in in 2014 & 2015 and jumped costs way up, but they have somewhat corrected in 16 & 17 so you call it a victory. even though what we are paying now in 16 and 17 still far out paces the inflation growth from 2008.

the study you have posted has done nothing but hurt your case. the only positives it has is that 16 & 17 are better than 14 & 15. not that 16 & 17 are better than before 14.

So for 4 years under Obama, (3 under the ACA) we got what we should want, but once the house and senate were lost and all efforts to tweak the system were thwarted and the repubs did all within their power to demonize and destroy the ACA, things started getting worse?

Everyone take note of the leftist montra. Obama and the democratic congress lied to the American people, lied to the Supreme Court, forcibly shoved an unconstitutional abomination on the people when given unrestrained political power...the ends justified the means...not to give America what we want, b to force on us what they say we should want.

And the SJWs lap it up and push the narrative as though we're the idiots.

lol.... check out the bolded in the above quotes.
I was responding specifically to what LouderVol posted. I even used his exact words "what we should want". Odd you didn't attack him (not really).
I think what we are witnessing and of what everyone should take note is your unhealthily obsessive desire to frame my post in a way (at least in your mind) that allows you to go off on some bizarre and irrelevant tangent in your never ending attempt to attack me for the whole board to see. Hint: they don't really care that much. Take your defeats and move on and hope to win one occasionally. Maybe even learn something along the way.
Concrete, 2-d, can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[Orange_Crush]

lol.... check out the bolded in the above quotes.
I was responding specifically to what LouderVol posted. I even used his exact words "what we should want". Odd you didn't attack him (not really).
I think what we are witnessing and of what everyone should take note is your unhealthily obsessive desire to frame my post in a way (at least in your mind) that allows you to go off on some bizarre and irrelevant tangent in your never ending attempt to attack me for the whole board to see. Hint: they don't really care that much. Take your defeats and move on and hope to win one occasionally. Maybe even learn something along the way.
Concrete, 2-d, can't see the forest for the trees.

Hm.You see no difference between a person on a website debating to make recommendations about what we should want, and what you and i referenced that the dems actually did,which was to lie to Congress,the supreme court and the American people to enforce an unconstitutional law.

I think that's the important part of my argument that you didn't include. Remember how often i remind you that we pay more attention to what you ignore than what you respond to? And remember how i told you and everyone else beforehand that you lie, equivocate, lie more, ignore, distract and project? And remember when I said that you try to speak "rational" yet prove it's a foreign language? Well, your entire response was a category fallacy.

My "defeats", huh?

Yah. You do you perfectly, Soupy. I think I can live with them.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Oh,and you always double down because you're scared to death that everyone will think you're an idiot. Let me allay your fears. They already do. You can relax.