Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[xtpsrh08123]

OR: we could win just one freakin' game against a good opponent. Just one! Can't even do that.

I agree we cannot consider ourselves elite until we can actually beat an elite team. Every meaningful game this season we have lost . Albeit injuries , suspensions etc but we should have at least 1 or 2 good wins at this point of the season. I like our chances against SC as they are not as dominant this season and more so of a wear you down type team in the end.

 

[Terrells Bay88]

Exactly! Banghart does not have a pedigree of Summitt and 8 national titles to recruit with. North Carolina's women's team as never won anything--and yet she's kicking Harper's butt in recruiting, and so is everybody else, including other programs that have never won a national title. There's no excuse for our terrible recruiting--none. If we want to be candid about, signing one HS prospect one year and then zero the next, at a school with our tradition, is pretty much a reason to find another coach and staff, if you ask me. They somewhat bailed themselves last year with the transfer class--tho it, not surprisingly, as been less impactful than anticipated. And last year's transfer class is about as good as any program could expect to get. We need another one like it--but it's going to be hard. THIS was the year we needed to win some big games and develop some momentum and let prospects know that this program was trending upward. We've done quite well against lesser opponents but have not won a single game against good opponents. If you're a good coach, you do that. That's what good coaches do. I'm not saying we should have beaten all the top ten teams we've played--but we needed to find a way to win at least a couple of them. We haven't done it and we're pretty much dog-paddling in the sea of mediocrity again. Not where we want to be....

North Carolina WBB has 1 national title; Duke WBB doesn't. Carry on.

 

[LUVMESUMVOL]

Sorry for the delay.....ESPN presence....NBA credibility with Boston....3 on 3 success at international level (gold medal).....and a ranked team at Duke. WAY more than Harper had...........

I’m agreeing with you on this one I honestly think Kara would have more appeal with recruits my point is CKH is a class act but she isn’t this generation’s type of coach for the top recruits she’s too bland for most of today’s young women who because of the times are different minded than yesteryear’s young ladies jmo

 

[Majors]

Kellie had a much better start, fans here might have gone ballistic if she had begun like CB.

CB’s record at NC is: 1st year, 16-14, 2nd year, 13-11, 3rd year, 25-7, 16-5 so far, this year.

KH’s record at TN is: 1st year, 21-10, 2nd year, 17-8, 3rd year, 25-9, 16-8 so far, this year, against one of the toughest schedules in the country. We have already played teams ranked, 2,3,4, and 5, in the country.

We were #5 when a few of those lesser beat teams us. Those lesser teams moved up after beating us and we moved out. Not to mention two were unranked at the time.

 

[Majors]

It was LSU’s easy schedule, they beat us head to head. Now this.

 

[tennisaceb]

You are aware that we have ZERO recruits signed for Class of 23 right???

No offense but the 2020 class of Darby and Salary wasn't a good haul either.

 

[mcannon1]

not all of us mudcat.

I will give my personal take for what it's worth...

I have stated several times and I back Kellie 100% and do.
But I have also said I am UT-program #1,,the players #2,,the coaches #3
Both are true
Have I been critical of her, absolutely, and will be until she coaches to the Tennessee level she signed up for.

I want to see Coach Kellie Harper stop trying to be a "players coach" and start being a "winner coach."
Yes we have won a lot of games,, but none of the wins were games suppose to lose.
And therein is the problem
To be a true elite program you have to win the games you are supposed to and steal some of the games you are not supposed to win.

we have done A,,,not B

Here's my take...
Our losses (in order) and their present rank per AP-poll and their preseason rankings:
Ohio ST #10 (Preseason # 14)
Indiana #4 (Preseason # 11)
UCLA #14 (Preseason # unranked)
Gonzaga #17 (Preseason # unranked)
Va Tech #13 (Preseason # 13)
Stanford #2 (Preseason # 2)
UCONN #5 (Preseason # 6)
LSU #3 (Preseason # 16)
** Tennessee (Preseason # 5) **

Only one was ranked above us preseason
Every one of them has achieved or overachieved
We haven't
in fact we have severely underachieved
Further...
Several of those games were very winnable during their playing.

Yes we lost Tamari Key and to a lesser extent (Suarez and Rennie)
But we still have two players projected to be lottery picks (Horston and Jackson),,and some of those teams we lost to, cannot say that!

Finally
This is Tennessee
that used to mean something to everyone,,,the very mention of having to play us instilled fear in every opponent....Now, it seems, they look forward to "payback city" and that makes my fur stand on end!

Personally I see the same 4 things happening in every one of those losses:

1. Going home with timeouts that could have been used to try to stop double digit runs
2. Substitutions without purpose
3. Not recognizing when we are going into stagnation on offense and doing something about it right then.
4. Not starting the five players who are playing the best basketball at the time of each event and continuing to start those five until someone TAKES their spot

Right.

 

[Majors]

Sorry for the delay.....ESPN presence....NBA credibility with Boston....3 on 3 success at international level (gold medal).....and a ranked team at Duke. WAY more than Harper had...........

Which kids today connect with. Her social media presence/practice talks early helped market her to recruits and paid off. I’m not endorsing Kara but she has made a nice transition in a short time.

 

[Majors]

Never understood the love for her. If she is playing wing against a HS team playing a 2-3 zone she'd be effective. She's slow and can't guard anyone and can't create her own shot. And Darby is even slower......the game is faster and these girls have gotten left behind

Power 5 speed will expose you.

 

[MadMaxSC]

I agree we cannot consider ourselves elite until we can actually beat an elite team. Every meaningful game this season we have lost . Albeit injuries , suspensions etc but we should have at least 1 or 2 good wins at this point of the season. I like our chances against SC as they are not as dominant this season and more so of a wear you down type team in the end.

I don't buy into that "injury" excuse. Nobody has had more injuries to key plyers than UCONN. They continue to win and win convincingly. A good Coach prepares the players he/she has and moves forward. Note that I said, "good" Coaches. I do NOT include KH in that category. She is Holly, v2.0.

 

[chuckiepoo]

I agree we cannot consider ourselves elite until we can actually beat an elite team. Every meaningful game this season we have lost . Albeit injuries , suspensions etc but we should have at least 1 or 2 good wins at this point of the season. I like our chances against SC as they are not as dominant this season and more so of a wear you down type team in the end.

Yo! …pass that over here…

 

[VOLINVONORE]

There are 16 players on the roster. 6 will graduate but some could use an extra year of eligibility if they wanted to come back (e.g., Key). Players could transfer out, others could transfer in. Next year's current depth chart (players with an extra year if they want it in parentheses):

PG: Powell, Miles, E. Darby
SG: T. Darby, Wynn (Horston, Rennie)
SF: Puckett, Pissott (Jackson)
PF: Striplin, Suarez
C: Hollingshead (Key)

This team could improve next year if all of them would get in really good physical condition. They would be quicker, faster, and play better on both ends of the court. We have a bunch of good shooters but need to improve in their quickness. It is still possible to get some good replacements this Spring and Summer from the portal or high school . Don’t give up so easily.

 

[Advol]

I would say most if not all the Posts on here are about Coach Harpers Coaching Ability.
Liking or not liking her has NOTHING to do with it. For the record I like her! So what!
And actually I put the most blame of the programs status on Holly.
Lazy AD Fulmer made the easy and BAD hire.
It has been down hill since.

 

[Darth_Vol]

It was LSU’s easy schedule, they beat us head to head. Now this.

So we established Banghart came into a significantly worse situation than Kellie, and by year four she has now significantly surpassed Kellie by any metric - record, ranking, quality wins, etc.

Debates are really easy when the other side makes your argument for you...

 

[LVsinceJV]

So we established Banghart came into a significantly worse situation than Kellie, and by year four she has now significantly surpassed Kellie by any metric - record, ranking, quality wins, etc.

Debates are really easy when the other side makes your argument for you...

Significantly, no. Banghart is marginally better than Harper, and not worthy of the admiration received by some on here.

Do you want a knockout hire, or a slightly better hire?

 

[Darth_Vol]

Significantly, no. Banghart is marginally better than Harper, and not worthy of the admiration received by some on here.

Do you want a knockout hire, or a slightly better hire?

I would say being ranked 11th in the country is more than "marginally" better than an unranked bubble team. But the bigger point is looking at some of Kellie's coaching peers who were hired close to the same time she was -- Banghart, Ivey, Lawson -- who have their high profile programs in much better position...

 

[LVsinceJV]

I would say being ranked 11th in the country is more than "marginally" better than an unranked bubble team. But the bigger point is looking at some of Kellie's coaching peers who were hired close to the same time she was -- Banghart, Ivey, Lawson -- who have their high profile programs in much better position...

Banghart schedules weak and benefits from a relatively easy path through the rankings. Some good wins and some terrible losses mixed in. I'll wait and see with Lawson, but Niele Ivey has been fantastic at ND since she took over.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Banghart schedules weak and benefits from a relatively easy path through the rankings.

That's not accurate. Indiana, Iowa St, Michigan, Oregon looks like a solid non-conference slate, an there's no question the ACC as a whole is far more challenging than the SEC... which after the top two teams is trash this season.

 

[Coach Jumper]

 

[T_Vol376]

I would say most if not all the Posts on here are about Coach Harpers Coaching Ability.
Liking or not liking her has NOTHING to do with it. For the record I like her! So what!
And actually I put the most blame of the programs status on Holly.
Lazy AD Fulmer made the easy and BAD hire.
It has been down hill since.

This is Kellie’s 4th year and Holly has coached zero of the players currently on the roster. Key and Horston are the last of her recruits but she never coached them. At what point does the does the responsibility fall on Kellie? Just asking.

 

[Coach Jumper]

I would say most if not all the Posts on here are about Coach Harpers Coaching Ability.
Liking or not liking her has NOTHING to do with it. For the record I like her! So what!
And actually I put the most blame of the programs status on Holly.
Lazy AD Fulmer made the easy and BAD hire.
It has been down hill since.

This team is dramatically stronger than the spiral that was Holly Warlick
they win games they are supposed to and they fight when Holly's teams would be giving up

 

[Volfan2012]

Started the season with an up tempo game with a team that is for the most part after three or four players really slow. Last night was the first time I saw them try to work the defense for any amount of time of a possession before shooting the ball. A lot more post touches and post influence last night. See where it goes from here a lot better strategy as far as controlling the possessions of the other team. A lot better defensive strategy as far as getting stops. I don't care if games are in the 60's goal is to win and you have to win with the personnel you have. We don't have a lot of race horses on the team so this type of control is going to be the best way to win. I'll see if they can get better at it or even stick with it going forward.

 

[glv98]

We don't have a lot of race horses on the team so this type of control is going to be the best way to win.

Yes but we have two of the best and it seems ashamed not to use them. I still think we should be getting more in transition w JH and RJ.

 

[Volfan2012]

Yes but we have two of the best and it seems ashamed not to use them. I still think we should be getting more in transition w JH and RJ.

Maybe against some teams, but the best teams have those players too and usually more of them than we do. Limiting offensive possessions for high powered offenses can be a winning strategy as well. I know that Baker and Scott have been Ole Miss big two and they score 16 between them and only got 17 shots between the two of them for the game. Ole Miss coming in 71 points per game gets 51. Ole Miss with only 52 possessions shots to our 69 was the big reason we won the game as we shot the same percentage they did. I'll take any game where we get 69 shots to 52 for the opponent I don't care how we do it.

 

[Majors]

This team is dramatically stronger than the spiral that was Holly Warlick
they win games they are supposed to and they fight when Holly's teams would be giving up

Were they not supposed to beat UCLA and Gonzaga this year? Both were not ranked at the time.