Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[Ovol]

Butch Jones used analytics when he decided to kick a field goal from the 6 INCH line.

 

[turbovol]

"Analytics" aside,,,how about we give it a try,,glv.
My analytics re not using a timeout to try to stop a run,,,results,,,Not working!

My take on this subject...

If you have a matured team that gains confidence, is successful and consistently proves "not calling time out" to be beneficial in building the core strength and confidence of a team,,,have at it.

However, if doing this consistently hampers the growth, confidence and win/loss record of a team,,,forget "analytics" and use a time-honored proven tactic available to you as a coach,, as it shows your team/fans/the org that you will do SOMETHING to try to stop the run besides erratic subbing.

Further,, (see both the UCONN game where Geno called timeout and successfully stopped our run and see the LSU game where Mulkey used this tactic twice late in the game to stop our runs) and consider this "analytically proven not to work" tactic was used successfully against us not too long ago,,,successfully!



Kellie and her staff have proven to be able to make progress and this team has had some very close and winnable games to those ranked above them. The players, the fans, and her staff seemingly love her. And she has this team running through the meat of the SEC, winning most of the games (before LSU we were 8-0,,,remember?)

That said, I agree with Earl...Witch-hunting her and chasing her into a burning stake is not the answer. I have my theory of what is and posted it,,,,just like many others on this board. ( Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged] ).

In closing this thought, I see a duplicate of what I saw that took our prior coach down,,,"Too many "yes men" and "yes women" around her and not enough influences with the "cochungas" to tell her she needs to rework some of her strategies. Hopefully she can see this before the "burn her at the stake" crew is successful.

You're off the mark with this take. "Yes men and women" didn't take Warlick down. Please, get real. She was a terrible coach--period--way over her head from day one. What we're seeing from some fans is what we saw with Warlick: the diehards still hoping and clinging to the possibility that an ex-Vol can get it done in the face of rapidly mounting evidence that she can't and she won't.

 

[Coach Jumper]

ok

 

[Volfaninfl2]

First let me say two things. I am not a Kelli hater as I am a long term Basketball fan(55+ years) but became a UT fan when both of my kids decided to go to UT. Second, because I am not a longer term fan, I don't own any orange colored glasses.

With as much talent as maybe leaving this year (JH, RJ, Key) and without a top ranked 2023 class signed, how much talent will CJH have to pickup in the portal to be better than this year and show real improvement in 2023?

I am not trying to be a jerk or a hater, but I just don't understand why people say give her 1 or 2 more years. The truth is that it is a greater chance than not that giving another 1 or 2 years will just be wasted years.

I could be wrong just trying to look logically at where the program is after 4 years. I just don't see the talent recruitment or the growth of the players or coaches execution after 4 years.

Just can’t agree at all with your last paragraph. We brought in 5 highly rated players this year. It’s still recruiting, whether it’s from high school, or players in college. I see growth of our players. Walker and Striplin, even Horston, have shown improvement this year, and Jillian is improving every game, before our very eyes. Oh yes, Tess has also shown “growth” in her game.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

I think we need to taper expectations first. The program will never be back to the domination level Pat attained during her tenure. Even Pat did not have the program at the level she attained at her peak. Now, if the program expects to get back into the top 10 annually and occasionally make the final 4, they need better and consistent recruiting. Once that level is attained 3 years in a row we can critique the coaching. No one is coaching this roster to the final 4.

Agree, except for your last sentence. A lot depends on the brackets, never say never.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

Just can’t agree at all with your last paragraph. We brought in 5 highly rated players this year. It’s still recruiting, whether it’s from high school, or players in college. I see growth of our players. Walker and Striplin, even Horston, have shown improvement this year, and Jillian is improving every game, before our very eyes.

I see growth of players ability but I stick by my statement that I see “no growth of the players or coaches execution”.

I don’t see execution of the offense(if there is one other than 1-1) or defensive execution getting better. On offense there should be constant movement, high pick and rolls, low pick and rolls, should be double screens out top to free shooters but plays are mostly stand around and run a 1-1.

 

[Nute Gunray]

If a change is made, who would the top candidates be?

The UT AD needs to perform an extensive research on the head coaches at Indiana, Iowa, Iowa State, Utah, Ohio State, Gonzaga, Villanova, Arizona, UCLA, Florida State, and South Florida. He will found a coach to restore the elite status from these candidate if he and his assistants perform a judicious, extensive and meticulous search for the right person.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

Unfortunately Kellie isn't going anywhere this year unless the wheels completely come off. With the talent on this team along with how bad the SEC is, it's hard to see that happening. They will finish 3rd in the SEC, again, and limp into the postseason... maybe win a game or two in the SEC tournament. It's hard to see them lasting past the first weekend of the NCAA, but another Sweet 16 is probably the ceiling if things break their way.

An underwhelming season will get White's attention, but it isn't terrible enough to justify firing Kellie. Sadly we will have to wait until next season when the program craters - which as things stand now is imminent - before White will act...

Are you trying this hard to get your Coach at Vandy fired?

 

[Prophet1]

After watching the last two games, it appears to me that KJH’s best five players are Hollinshed, Horston, Jackson, Puckett and Walker. Darby is a good three shooter when she has a clear shot, but her defense against top ten guards is lacking due to lack of foot speed. Since this multiple subing appears to not work against top ten teams, KJH needs to consider keeping her best players, barring fouling issues, on the floor as much as possible. I would also like to see more motion offense and setting more picks to open up looks for shooters.

Not Puckett

 

[TheSummitt23]

Take a look a Harper. It is showing on her face and her body language she knows the swan son has begun. In over her head.

 

[Darth_Vol]

I'm curious then, why you think she and Barnes are so set against calling them. LOL I know why you think Kellie doesn't, but how to explain Rick, the coach of the #2 team in the country?

Dunno, how did that work out for him tonight?

To be fair, his couch survey was whether "most" coaches don't call MTOs any more as I had claimed. Alot still do for sure but enough don't to make it an interesing question IMO.

Not sure what was unclear about that, guess comprehension is hard...

 

[Memvol44]

No!!

 

[madtownvol]

Dunno, how did that work out for him tonight?



Not sure what was unclear about that, guess comprehension is hard...

So is understanding how probabilities work.

And ya know, sometimes reading comprehension is just like hearning nails scratch across a chalk board.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

Bingo! She just so happened to make a surprise S16 run with MO State the same time the coaching search was being conducted.

Outside of that, her then 15-year (!!) coaching resume was average at best.

Average? No.

Kellie Harper - Women's Basketball Coach - University of Tennessee Athletics

While at her first Head Coaching job at Western Carolina:

“The Catamounts captured the first two Southern Conference (SoCon) Tournament titles in school history while seven student-athletes captured all-conference honors during her tenure.”

That mid major Missouri State team beat and competed with Top P5 teams in their run to the Sweet Sixteen:

“Her final Lady Bears team developed into her best one with a late season spree that included victories over No. 21 Drake, No. 24 DePaul and No. 13 Iowa State and a nine-point loss to sixth-ranked Stanford in the Sweet 16. Harper’s 2018-19 squad featured only one senior and included 11 freshmen or sophomores on the 14-player roster.”

Players have been successful on the court, and in the classroom. Kellie has won Conferences’ and National Coach of the Year Awards. Players have gone on to play in the WNBA and overseas.

Would like to mention Kellie’s teams have beaten teams Coached by Dawn, Muffet, Vic, and many others, so far.

Kellie is also one of only two Coaches to take teams from four schools to the NCAA Tournament.

Have left out a lot, but this resume is not average.

 

[ttharp]

Average? No.

Kellie Harper - Women's Basketball Coach - University of Tennessee Athletics

While at her first Head Coaching job at Western Carolina:

“The Catamounts captured the first two Southern Conference (SoCon) Tournament titles in school history while seven student-athletes captured all-conference honors during her tenure.”

That mid major Missouri State team beat and competed with Top P5 teams in their run to the Sweet Sixteen:

“Her final Lady Bears team developed into her best one with a late season spree that included victories over No. 21 Drake, No. 24 DePaul and No. 13 Iowa State and a nine-point loss to sixth-ranked Stanford in the Sweet 16. Harper’s 2018-19 squad featured only one senior and included 11 freshmen or sophomores on the 14-player roster.”

Players have been successful on the court, and in the classroom. Kellie has won Conferences’ and National Coach of the Year Awards. Players have gone on to play in the WNBA and overseas.

Would like to mention Kellie’s teams have beaten teams Coached by Dawn, Muffet, Vic, and many others, so far.

Kellie is also one of only two Coaches to take teams from four schools to the NCAA Tournament.

Have left out a lot, but this resume is not average.

Yes, I think it's an average resume for a coach that's looking to coach at an elite D1 school.

IMO, her coaching experience at the P5 level (which you didn't include) should get the bulk of attention when gauging her ability to lead the Tennessee Lady Vols back to elite status.

If she was consistently beating P5 teams as a mid-major coach, it would prove she's legit. But she only did it in one season, which I gave her credit for.

Also, credit to her for beating Dawn and Vic. When she beat Muffet, however, that year was a complete rebuild for ND, and they ended up losing 18 games. Not saying much, imo.

 

[Spook1]

The future of the Lady Vols 2023 basketball team does not look good. The current team was picked to be #4 and has lost 8 games with two more probable loses (SC and SEC Tournament) and are out of the top 25. Of the 13 players on the team, they lose 6. HoopsGurls rates the top 100 women players. The LV was able to sign only 1 player from the 2022 list and have absolutely none committed from the 2023 list. Where will they get good players as replacements.? There will be some players available from transfers, but these will be players that did not make it on their current teams. In reality, the LV team for 2023 may even be worse than the 2022 team. The LV are the only womens team to have played in every NCAA championship since 1982. There is a possibility that they might miss the championship tournament this year. Coach Harper has not produced results consistent with the traditional Lady Vols teams. There have been numerous complaints against Coach Harper on this website and more will come with the potential coming losses. In summation, the Lady Vols for 2023 look worse than the 8 loss (10 losses before the season is ended). It is to the point that a coaching change must be considered to get the LV back among the top teams.

 

[Raebo]

Yes, most of this has been said a hundred times so I am not going to rehash all that. You could have just gone down a couple threads and read basically the same comments you wrote.
Coach Kellie did very well in the portal last year. Got the best player available and the #1portal class. Much to early to talk about the portal this coming year.
Coach Kellie needs an OOC schedule like LSU had this year and then many fans will be singing her praises as we will have 2 or fewer losses going into SEC play.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Yes, I think it's an average resume for a coach that's looking to coach at an elite D1 school.

IMO, her coaching experience at the P5 level (which you didn't include) should get the bulk of attention when gauging her ability to lead the Tennessee Lady Vols back to elite status.

If she was consistently beating P5 teams as a mid-major coach, it would prove she's legit. But she only did it in one season, which I gave her credit for.

Also, credit to her for beating Dawn and Vic. When she beat Muffet, however, that year was a complete rebuild for ND, and they ended up losing 18 games. Not saying much, imo.

YES !!!
Why didn't she win a Natty at powerhouse, Missouri State and have a real resume' filler
Same for Western Carolina,,,a major BB P5 powerhouse....fell short of a natty there too
Get real!

 

[Majors]

Average? No.

Kellie Harper - Women's Basketball Coach - University of Tennessee Athletics

While at her first Head Coaching job at Western Carolina:

“The Catamounts captured the first two Southern Conference (SoCon) Tournament titles in school history while seven student-athletes captured all-conference honors during her tenure.”

That mid major Missouri State team beat and competed with Top P5 teams in their run to the Sweet Sixteen:

“Her final Lady Bears team developed into her best one with a late season spree that included victories over No. 21 Drake, No. 24 DePaul and No. 13 Iowa State and a nine-point loss to sixth-ranked Stanford in the Sweet 16. Harper’s 2018-19 squad featured only one senior and included 11 freshmen or sophomores on the 14-player roster.”

Players have been successful on the court, and in the classroom. Kellie has won Conferences’ and National Coach of the Year Awards. Players have gone on to play in the WNBA and overseas.

Would like to mention Kellie’s teams have beaten teams Coached by Dawn, Muffet, Vic, and many others, so far.

Kellie is also one of only two Coaches to take teams from four schools to the NCAA Tournament.

Have left out a lot, but this resume is not average.

Below average for Tennessee in year 4.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Below average for Tennessee in year 4.

I won't argue with you there
I too expected more from Coach K by now
But I am not ready to drop the hammer

 

[mudcat1973]

Unfortunately Kellie isn't going anywhere this year unless the wheels completely come off. With the talent on this team along with how bad the SEC is, it's hard to see that happening. They will finish 3rd in the SEC, again, and limp into the postseason... maybe win a game or two in the SEC tournament. It's hard to see them lasting past the first weekend of the NCAA, but another Sweet 16 is probably the ceiling if things break their way.

An underwhelming season will get White's attention, but it isn't terrible enough to justify firing Kellie. Sadly we will have to wait until next season when the program craters - which as things stand now is imminent - before White will act...

key,striplin,jill,marta 4 and 5 spots wheels are not bad at center and power forward. marta force shots less than some others. pucket can play power forward , small forward, guard

 

[Advol]

I won't argue with you there
I too expected more from Coach K by now
But I am not ready to drop the hammer

Sorry. The hammer has been dropped. Expectations aside, the program is far from being one that will bring the talent into the fold.
It is over in most minds!!

 

[mudcat1973]

Sorry. The hammer has been dropped. Expectations aside, the program is far from being one that will bring the talent into the fold.
It is over in most minds!!

fans going to games or not has more say than volnation. i agree with @Darth_Vol they going finish third, and make ncaa . do not see ut board,dean, or who ever danny white would run it by supporting droping the hammer. people on twitter or facebook have a bigger voice they are not hiding behind nicknames. there some on here who share photo of themself. they get credit for that.. or told who they are

 

[Coach Jumper]

Sorry. The hammer has been dropped. Expectations aside, the program is far from being one that will bring the talent into the fold.
It is over in most minds!!

Only by carpenters with weak hands

I have coached this game for 42 years
had teams that crushed the season and lost in round 1 and had teams that performed poorly and peaked in the playoffs
It ain't over till I say its over

 

[Volfaninfl2]

Kellie was hired late in the recruiting process in her first year, and in the second year, there were no campus visits, or face to face visits with players. This year is only the second year of normal recruiting. We’re recruiting against long established Coaches, and it takes time to catch up. We just lost close back to back games against teams ranked 2 and 3 in the country. If we play them again, we could win. The team hasn’t quit, just some posters here.