Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[Volfan1000]

Anybody on this board think that CKH need to hit a Sweet Sixteen berth in this year's tournament and if she fails to reach that then White decides to start looking for a new coach for the 2024 season?

 

[Volfan2012]

My thought on Harper is that AD can move on after the season or move on in a couple of seasons up to him. We've seen what were going to get with her. It is there to see after four seasons. If you like what your getting keep doing what were doing every season. If you think we can do better time to make that move. I really like Harper was on her side from the beginning thought she might be up to the challenge of rebuilding Tennessee back to the top. She is not going to be able to meet that challenge. She might hit the sweet sixteen this season that shouldn't be the goal in year four. Whether she makes the sweet sixteen or not this hasn't been the season that we can say were back. I don't see any evidence that next season will even measure up to this one.

 

[sgacock]

Anybody on this board think that CKH need to hit a Sweet Sixteen berth in this year's tournament and if she fails to reach that then White decides to start looking for a new coach for the 2024 season?

Outsider’s View:
All of this (large) board’s discussion about firing Kelly sends two messages. First, it tell recruits that Tennessee is an unstable program and their future at UT COULD BE AN UNSTABLE ONE. Second, it tells potential coaching candidates that “you will be given a very short leash and you had better produce pretty doggone big in four years.”

if she gets y’all to the Sweet 16, it would be harmful to your program for your fans to continue to keep her on the hot seat. If she doesn’t get you there, move on because your fan base is going to create such a poison atmosphere that it will impact the program’s future in scaring off coaching candidates and recruits.

I generally scoff at the notion of “negative recruiting” but the one thing opposing recruiters can tell prospects that is negative is: “ read what the Vol fans are saying about their own program.”

Sorry if I offend some . That is not my intent.

 

[Raebo]

Would someone remind me what our realistic preseason expectations were for the SEC. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th were the common expectations if I recall correctly. I don’t think finishing where you are expected to end will get her fired.
I think expectation would be that by year 5 we should be as good or better than 3rd in the SEC so we will see what happens next year. Those big NIL deals better be a reality.

 

[Volfan2012]

Would someone remind me what our realistic preseason expectations were for the SEC. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th were the common expectations if I recall correctly. I don’t think finishing where you are expected to end will get her fired.
I think expectation would be that by year 5 we should be as good or better than 3rd in the SEC so we will see what happens next year. Those big NIL deals better be a reality.

I think it is more about where were going than where we are right now. What does the future look like? To me it looks worse than the present. I hope it doesn't turn out that way, but it sure looks like the program is headed down a steep cliff unless we somehow pull a miracle in portal or convince present players to stay another season.

 

[glv98]

I generally scoff at the notion of “negative recruiting” but the one thing opposing recruiters can tell prospects that is negative is: “ read what the Vol fans are saying about their own program.”

Nah there's a much bigger "one thing" negative which recruits can be told: they can't win against elite teams. Compared to that, what fans say doesn't mean jack.

. I really like Harper was on her side from the beginning thought she might be up to the challenge of rebuilding Tennessee back to the top. She is not going to be able to meet that challenge. She might hit the sweet sixteen this season that shouldn't be the goal in year four. Whether she makes the sweet sixteen or not this hasn't been the season that we can say were back. I don't see any evidence that next season will even measure up to this one.

Same. I'm really sad about this, but we said from the get go this season would tell the tale on whether Kellie can coach elite. So far, she just can't. Doesn't help that she's a few players short, especially at guard. But that's on her also either for lack of recruiting or lack of development. I'm still hoping for some kind of post season run, mostly bc I so want RJ to get to experience that. But nothing that's happened this season gives me much hope that KJH can consistently coach at an elite level. Like this team, she's good but so far not great. And next year, yikes!

 

[Amb3096]

Would someone remind me what our realistic preseason expectations were for the SEC. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th were the common expectations if I recall correctly. I don’t think finishing where you are expected to end will get her fired.
I think expectation would be that by year 5 we should be as good or better than 3rd in the SEC so we will see what happens next year. Those big NIL deals better be a reality.

Depends on what the AD is expecting. Texas fired their HC when they were consistently to 3 in the B12 and making the tournament, with at least a few S16’s sprinkled in.

 

[glv98]

Would someone remind me what our realistic preseason expectations were for the SEC. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th were the common expectations if I recall correctly. I don’t think finishing where you are expected to end will get her fired.

Realistic preseason expectation for SEC: compete for the championship. Realistic preseason expectation nationally: top 5 (which in hindsight was unrealistic) but at least top 10 - 15. Definitely expected to win a few games against ranked teams.

Hasn't happened.

 

[Nute Gunray]

Why would you think you know what is in Kellie’s mind when she is subbing? Can we not all acknowledge that Kellie and everyone on her staff are significantly more knowledgeable about basketball than anyone on any fan site. Maybe she has not shared publicly all the reasons why she subs as she does but it is ludicrous to infer she has no purpose in how she subs.

Yes, Kellie does sub with a purpose. However, her substitution schemes do more damage than good. Also, I would strongly disagree with your statement about fan basketball knowledge. Some fans knows that the best way to play basketball is to determine who are your best players by position and make substitutions only when necessary, e.g., foul trouble, injury, sickness, extreme fatigue and so forth. Check out Auriemma's substitution schemes and it hurts me to say this, but, compare his won-lost record against Kellie's.

 

[Nute Gunray]

Anybody on this board think that CKH need to hit a Sweet Sixteen berth in this year's tournament and if she fails to reach that then White decides to start looking for a new coach for the 2024 season?

Kellie's fate was decided when she lost 8 or 9 games to ranked teams. She is a good coach, but not at the elite power 5 level.

 

[Lucy]

Yes, Kellie does sub with a purpose. However, her substitution schemes do more damage than good. Also, I would strongly disagree with your statement about fan basketball knowledge. Some fans knows that the best way to play basketball is to determine who are your best players by position and make substitutions only when necessary, e.g., foul trouble, injury, sickness, extreme fatigue and so forth. Check out Auriemma's substitution schemes and it hurts me to say this, but, compare his won-lost record against Kellie's.

Let me know when you or anyone else on this board gets contract to coach A P5 program. Until that time I’ll believe Kellie knows more about coaching than anyone on here.

 

[Majors]

My thought on Harper is that AD can move on after the season or move on in a couple of seasons up to him. We've seen what were going to get with her. It is there to see after four seasons. If you like what your getting keep doing what were doing every season. If you think we can do better time to make that move. I really like Harper was on her side from the beginning thought she might be up to the challenge of rebuilding Tennessee back to the top. She is not going to be able to meet that challenge. She might hit the sweet sixteen this season that shouldn't be the goal in year four. Whether she makes the sweet sixteen or not this hasn't been the season that we can say were back. I don't see any evidence that next season will even measure up to this one.

Co-sign for honesty. Well said and now fans needs to know if she met expectations or didn’t met expectations. Baseline was just be better than Holly.

 

[Weezer]

Would someone remind me what our realistic preseason expectations were for the SEC. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th were the common expectations if I recall correctly. I don’t think finishing where you are expected to end will get her fired.
I think expectation would be that by year 5 we should be as good or better than 3rd in the SEC so we will see what happens next year. Those big NIL deals better be a reality.

Whiffing on this year's recruiting concerns me far more than whether or not she finishes where expected. I get that there's still the transfer portal, but how can you not be concerned when your coach fails at recruiting? How can you fail to sell one of the most historical ladies basketball programs to even one recruit?

But what we think doesn't really matter. It's up to DW to do what is best for the program.

 

[Weezer]

Let me know when you or anyone else on this board gets contract to coach A P5 program. Until that time I’ll believe Kellie knows more about coaching than anyone on here.

I'm sure she does, but she's not being measured against message board posters. She's being measured against other coaches. And on that front, Kellie falls short of many.

 

[Volfan2012]

Co-sign for honesty. Well said and now fans needs to know if she met expectations or didn’t met expectations. Baseline was just be better than Holly.

There was no doubt that Holly needed to be fired her last couple of seasons were really bad. No doubt were looking in that direction again only if the AD thinks it is necessary. I am thinking he may ride it out another season after this one. I guess it all depends on what goes down in the coming games. I can see it much easier to do at the end of next season especially if the roster isn't upgraded enough. Were not winning next season unless we have some of these top players returning and we add two or three top players. Come the middle of May we will know a lot more. Or we could know sooner than that date.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Yes, Kellie does sub with a purpose. However, her substitution schemes do more damage than good. Also, I would strongly disagree with your statement about fan basketball knowledge. Some fans knows that the best way to play basketball is to determine who are your best players by position and make substitutions only when necessary, e.g., foul trouble, injury, sickness, extreme fatigue and so forth. Check out Auriemma's substitution schemes and it hurts me to say this, but, compare his won-lost record against Kellie's.

Boom

 

[Coach Jumper]

Let me know when you or anyone else on this board gets contract to coach A P5 program. Until that time I’ll believe Kellie knows more about coaching than anyone on here.

The blind following....

 

[Majors]

Let me know when you or anyone else on this board gets contract to coach A P5 program. Until that time I’ll believe Kellie knows more about coaching than anyone on here.

Are you saying most are qualified enough for App St or Missouri St?

 

[SGMVols]

Holly should be pissed off that we’ve apparently decided just making the tournament is acceptable now.

 

[gule]

How much longer will we wander in this here desert, Moses?

 

[madtownvol]

My thought on Harper is that AD can move on after the season or move on in a couple of seasons up to him. We've seen what were going to get with her. It is there to see after four seasons. If you like what your getting keep doing what were doing every season. If you think we can do better time to make that move. I really like Harper was on her side from the beginning thought she might be up to the challenge of rebuilding Tennessee back to the top. She is not going to be able to meet that challenge. She might hit the sweet sixteen this season that shouldn't be the goal in year four. Whether she makes the sweet sixteen or not this hasn't been the season that we can say were back. I don't see any evidence that next season will even measure up to this one.

Hiring and firing decisions are complicated, multi-factor decisions. I think if Kellie gets back to the Sweet 16, she will be warm and snug like a bug in a rug. It would be sending wrong signals, and generate a lot of bad national press, to fire a well-liked coach who has had that level of success in back-to-back years (even if expectations were higher). Even dominant teams can get knocked off at the Sweet 16 level (i.e. Baylor with Griner in 2013, when they were the odds on favorite to win the NC). If the LVs make that benchmark, any sports media buzz about a coaching change will stop and it will be wait and see about the next season.

If the LVs don't advance past the first weekend, then a conversation would probably begin because there would be a tangible sign of the program not moving forward (unless the LVs win the SEC tournament which also would provide a lifeline).

But, even if the team does not make sufficient progress in the post season, there is still the question of who could the program get as a clear upgrade replacement and the related concern of getting into a destabilizing coaching carousel.

I had been thinking it was going to be Sweet 16 or bust but I think it may more be likely that Kellie would get a kind of probation year for next season if the LVs lose in the opening round and then the pressure would really be on.

 

[Coach Jumper]

sweet 16 is the Mendoza line for this team...Mendoza...in the sports world that equates to "minimum requirement"...to me that means if Coach Kellie is to be better than her predecessor,,,Even Holly could get this team to that round

I have been in management for most of my adult life and been a coach for longer,,,,This team is where it is bc "The business,,is being run as,,,a possession"

"I want what I want and don't have too change and you can't make me"
I shouldn't have to, make you.

 

[PineyBluff Vo]

How bad do they want it!!!

 

[Voluble2]

This always makes me laugh. How exactly do you go about not accepting? A strongly worded post? Burn a mattress? Newsflash: our level of "acceptance" has zilch to do with anything.

I imagine Greg Schiano might beg to differ.

 

[Raebo]

I don’t believe making sweet 16 is going to be the make or break point. To make the sweet 16 we will probably have to upset a higher ranked team on their home court. That game will not be the decision maker.
The AD will wait until at least next year to see how the season/recruiting, etc is going. In the meantime, I hope we do well and upset some teams in the next month.