Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

#3,226
#3,226
madtownvol said:
The Sports world is very much a "what have you done for me lately?" business. So, the present is more telling of there a program is today than the past.

And if Barnes recruits so much better than Kellie but has only attained the same #4 seeding, would he not be the one who is under achieving?

BTW, who has Barnes recruited who is a comparatively better player than Rickea Jackson?
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Barnes is not working with a tradition of 8 national titles. Our men's team has never even been to a FINAL Four. So, yea, in that sense he's accomplished a lot more than Harper, who probably saved her job by getting Jackson as a transfer. That is far and away the best thing the staff has done. What other genuine talent has she and her staff recruited in 4 years? The problem with recruiting top players in the men's game is that the really talented ones leave after one year. We had two 5 stars leave after one season two years ago.
 
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#3,227
#3,227
turbovol said:
What other genuine talent has she and her staff recruited in 4 years?
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Jillian Hollingshead. Hopefully Justine Pissiot.

And she actually recruited RJ twice. Once last spring and again this year through "the incident" and straight thru to "I'm staying". That was a huge recruiting win.

I was really surprised to hear RJ say she was always considering staying 2 yrs. In light of that, Harper's tough love on her was even more gutsy. Lots and lots to lose but stuck to her guns. Really glad for all that KJH got the win on that one.

That said, getting zilch out of high school is a real concern.
 
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#3,228
#3,228
turbovol said:
Barnes is not working with a tradition of 8 national titles. Our men's team has never even been to a FINAL Four. So, yea, in that sense he's accomplished a lot more than Harper, who probably saved her job by getting Jackson as a transfer. That is far and away the best thing the staff has done. What other genuine talent has she and her staff recruited in 4 years? The problem with recruiting top players in the men's game is that the really talented ones leave after one year. We had two 5 stars leave after one season two years ago.
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How many points or rebounds a game does 8 titles get you?

It has been 15 years since the LVs last NC. Todays players and recruits were in grade school when that happened. The legacy is not conferring some great advantage to Kellie.

For the record, I don't like these Barnes versus Harper comparisons because they are stupid. Both are doing good jobs in very different coaching contexts.
 
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#3,229
#3,229
glv98 said:
Jillian Hollingshead. Hopefully Justine Pissiot.

And she actually recruited RJ twice. Once last spring and again this year through "the incident" and straight thru to "I'm staying". That was a huge recruiting win.

I was really surprised to hear RJ say she was always considering staying 2 yrs. In light of that, Harper's tough love on her was even more gutsy. Lots and lots to lose but stuck to her guns. Really glad for all that KJH got the win on that one.

That said, getting zilch out of high school is a real concern.
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For the record, Tess Darby, Karo Striplin, and Jaz Powell are showing that they are not just "chopped chicken liver." I still think that Puckett is going to become a really, really good player.
 
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#3,230
#3,230
madtownvol said:
It has been 15 years since the LVs last NC. Todays players and recruits were in grade school when that happened. The legacy is not conferring some great advantage to Kellie.
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People who say recruits or opponents still bow before the legacy must not have kids that age in their lives. I can tell you the those kids' take is totally, "Oh yeah, they use to be good." No doubt there are a few like Justine for whom it's still a dream destination, but that's rare.

The advantage seems to be that the program still lives like a super elite. The facilities, the perks, the gear, the atmosphere is still at the top once you get recruits here. But the name and record alone not so much. Nice to have but seldom decisive.
 
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#3,231
#3,231
madtownvol said:
For the record, Tess Darby, Karo Striplin, and Jaz Powell are showing that they are not just "chopped chicken liver." I still think that Puckett is going to become a really, really good player.
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I would put those 4 among players who KJH hopefully squeezes every ounce available out of. Tess and Karo are good examples of that this year. Sara and Jaz are welcome to join up now, launching off really nice first round games.

IMO, Strip is the team's most improved player, Jill a close second. Hmm, wonder if Jon Harper had anything to do with that. Thinking about our frontcourt next yr makes me tingle.
 
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#3,232
#3,232
mudcat1973 said:
tenn should win by ten plus if defence looked in. tenn does need to put it all on horston . tenn needs two more to score 10 pts besides jackson & horston.
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I hope you're right. I know some fans were ready to hand Kellie coach of the year for reaching the Sweet 16, I guess by surpassing expectations some had that Kellie herself effectively lowered. But IMO it will be hard to argue this season a success if this team finishes no better than last season...
 
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#3,233
#3,233
Darth_Vol said:
I hope you're right. I know some fans were ready to hand Kellie coach of the year for reaching the Sweet 16, I guess by surpassing expectations some had that Kellie herself effectively lowered. But IMO it will be hard to argue this season a success if this team finishes no better than last season...
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final four come down with key out . but should beat va tech if lay hard and smart.. if there not more than two rowing rocky top could be in troblem. hoping and expecting two more players score near 10 pts than jackson and horston. also expecting no coasting on defence.
 
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#3,234
#3,234
mudcat1973 said:
final four come down with key out . but should beat va tech if lay hard and smart.. if there not more than two rowing rocky top could be in troblem. hoping and expecting two more players score near 10 pts than jackson and horston. also expecting no coasting on defence.
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Tess hits 10+ we have a chance, if she’s 6 or less we typically lose. RJ and JH have to get theirs too.
 
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#3,235
#3,235
Majors said:
Tess hits 10+ we have a chance, if she’s 6 or less we typically lose. RJ and JH have to get theirs too.
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if horston shots are falling she needs to pass more and defence. if feels it up to her and force bad shots we in troblem . yes need darby , powell, walker produce and hollieshed , striplin score close to their big girl if those five score 8 pts thats 40 jackson and horston should be free to get theirs.
 
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#3,237
#3,237
I don't follow women's recruiting much but it doesn't look like we have a very good roster and next to nothing from the bench. I know Kellie struck out recruiting this year but is she just struggling in recruiting or is there something else going on?
 
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#3,238
#3,238
KB5252 said:
I don't follow women's recruiting much but it doesn't look like we have a very good roster and next to nothing from the bench. I know Kellie struck out recruiting this year but is she just struggling in recruiting or is there something else going on?
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Don't ask that question. It will ruffle some feathers on here!! Kellie didn't strike out, she has a master plan no one knows about..
 
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#3,241
#3,241
KB5252 said:
It's a legitimate question, something is going on. It has to be addressed somehow.
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The question was fine, it's just been argued to death on here, and no one here can really answer it. You might as well make up whatever answer you want to believe about it and then tell everyone else here that's how it is - that's what everyone else around here does, anyway.
 
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#3,244
#3,244
It's amazing how little progress KJH made over 37 games on the question of whether she can coach at an elite level. Didn't lose any ground, but sure as heck didn't gain any. Certainly didn't produce results the roster on paper suggests she should have.

KJH has a knack for doing just enough to keep her chestnuts out of the fire. The huge culture/recruiting win of getting Rickea back took any heat off her seat and along w the return of Key, gives hope for next year. Especially if she does well in the portal again.

But that feels like starting all over again at exactly the same spot. Next year there are no mulligans for KJH. She must make progress in the form of actually beating some good teams. No excuses of building chemistry, etc. She's getting a second act, there cannot be a third. Must get it the F done!
 
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#3,247
#3,247
gule said:
Worst thing for the lady vols today was uconn losing just before they played. It took their minds off of the goal.
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You really think that looks like they would have said he'll yea we beat VA Tech we got shot for Final Four
 
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#3,248
#3,248
glv98 said:
It's amazing how little progress KJH made over 37 games on the question of whether she can coach at an elite level. Didn't lose any ground, but sure as heck didn't gain any. Certainly didn't produce results the roster on paper suggests she should have.

KJH has a knack for doing just enough to keep her chestnuts out of the fire. The huge culture/recruiting win of getting Rickea back took any heat off her seat and along w the return of Key, gives hope for next year. Especially if she does well in the portal again.

But that feels like starting all over again at exactly the same spot. Next year there are no mulligans for KJH. She must make progress in the form of actually beating some good teams. No excuses of building chemistry, etc. She's getting a second act, there cannot be a third. Must get it the F done!
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This is the heart of the matter. What progress has the program made the last four years under Harper? The answer, sadly, is that we haven't made any /real/ progress. We're pretty much where we were when she was hired--meaning nowhere close to being a national contender again. We had a nice SEC record--but the SEC was down this year and otherwise we had only 1/2 wins over top 20 opponents. I rate her and her staff as slightly better coaches than Warlick and her staff, but not as good at recruiting. Which adds up to a big meh: we're still muddling along--an above average program, but not much more than that. With Jackson returning for another year, all those who were certain THIS was the year will now assert that /next year/ will be the year! It's OK to dream....
 
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#3,250
#3,250
turbovol said:
This is the heart of the matter. What progress has the program made the last four years under Harper? The answer, sadly, is that we haven't made any /real/ progress. We're pretty much where we were when she was hired--meaning nowhere close to being a national contender again. We had a nice SEC record--but the SEC was down this year and otherwise we had only 1/2 wins over top 20 opponents. I rate her and her staff as slightly better coaches than Warlick and her staff, but not as good at recruiting. Which adds up to a big meh: we're still muddling along--an above average program, but not much more than that. With Jackson returning for another year, all those who were certain THIS was the year will now assert that /next year/ will be the year! It's OK to dream....
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Was the SEC down this year? Ask Stanford that question…I’ll hang up and listen..
 
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