Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[Majors]

Fortunately on a sports board, I'm allowed to have irrational hope that flys in the face of two decades of evidence. I have a scintilla of hope that the proverbial "next year" will be the year she finally starts beating good teams at least occasionally. I know its an echo of this year, but if not next year w the same roster and all this bitter experience to learn from, when?

Also call me crazy bc I do believe she's very, very close. So much good foundation is in place but the on court progress feels glacial. I realize that may be bc due to lack of coaching accumen. You have the foundation, why isn't it happening. Let's see what they learn and apply for next year.

A good start would be dialing back the schedule to a dull roar. It turns out, for all the many, many times they all said the schedule paid off, it actually didn't. Don't think it mattered a bit yesterday that they played Indiana instead of Tennessee Tech last November.

At least next year has turned into something to look forward to. Imagine if we had this loss and were looking at what we thought we would be. Ugh. Things could be worse

You’re pretty rational. I don’t think we are close because of anything CKH has shown unfortunately . I do believe we are trending slightly down as RJ saved CKH in many ways and gave fans hope. How different this team will look after she’s gone as we have no depth, no recruits and little athleticism. Our hope is the unknown of the portal but at best is it SS again while beating up on lesser teams but losing benchmark?

 

[Majors]

This. But all we hear is, “But… but… Holly had Pat’s recruits.” I also think some people will not acknowledge that the type of players we have now and the way you have to handle them is different. Unfortunately Holly lost the team and we know the rest of that story, but I think she was a better coach than she got credit for.

Easy to deflect to Holly because of how it ended, many forget how it started. Holly followed the legend, all CKH had to do was be better than Holly. Overall resume isn’t a debate at this point.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Fortunately on a sports board, I'm allowed to have irrational hope that flys in the face of two decades of evidence. I have a scintilla of hope that the proverbial "next year" will be the year she finally starts beating good teams at least occasionally. I know its an echo of this year, but if not next year w the same roster and all this bitter experience to learn from, when?

Also call me crazy bc I do believe she's very, very close. So much good foundation is in place but the on court progress feels glacial. I realize that may be bc due to lack of coaching accumen. You have the foundation, why isn't it happening. Let's see what they learn and apply for next year.

A good start would be dialing back the schedule to a dull roar. It turns out, for all the many, many times they all said the schedule paid off, it actually didn't. Don't think it mattered a bit yesterday that they played Indiana instead of Tennessee Tech last November.

At least next year has turned into something to look forward to. Imagine if we had this loss and were looking at what we thought we would be. Ugh. Things could be worse

Better renew your season tickets quickly, they will go fast!

 

[Darth_Vol]

This. But all we hear is, “But… but… Holly had Pat’s recruits.” I also think some people will not acknowledge that the type of players we have now and the way you have to handle them is different. Unfortunately Holly lost the team and we know the rest of that story, but I think she was a better coach than she got credit for.

I was as critical of Holly as anyone, but she did reach the Elite 8 three times and win the SEC titles. Hell even Kyra Elzy, who is god-awful, managed to win an SEC tournament title.

And make no mistake, Kellie had an Elite 8 caliber team this year...

 

[Advol]

HooooooooooooHum
Are you REALLY surprised.
What you see is what ur gonna get. It appears to me the context of most of this board is that it IS expected and accepted!!

 

[Dansky]

Pat was the coach in name in her final two years. Holly won’t get credit for how that team played and stayed competitive. And also Holly recruited many of those players that won under Pat as well as left Kellie her two best players in Key and JH.

Well I suppose we should have kept Holly?

 

[T_Vol376]

I was as critical of Holly as anyone, but she did reach the Elite 8 three times and win the SEC titles. Hell even Kyra Elzy, who is god-awful, managed to win an SEC tournament title.

And make no mistake, Kellie had an Elite 8 caliber team this year...

I agree with you, Darth. She did, indeed. Last year they made the SS by the skin of their teeth. This year they had gone on a run and were playing good leading up to the NCAAT so I was hopeful. Silly me.

 

[Golfteacher]

Credit Kellie's dwindling number of supporters for some creative mental gymnastics to continue to defend her performance. Hey, if the expectation is third place in the conference and making the semifinals of the conference tournament, there's no question Kellie was a homerun hire.

Checkmate negavols...

Tennessee needs to do some serious portal, JUCO and foreign recruiting to challenge the two top teams in the SEC, USC and LSU. KJH needs to be on the phone ASAP recruiting her rear off. The Lady Vols’ position in the SEC will be severely challenged by MissState and Ole Miss. I know we have Jackson and Key coming back but we need another scorer to take the pressure off of Jackson. We need speed and a quality point guard. We also need three shooters who show up in big games.

 

[Majors]

Well I suppose we should have kept Holly?

a case could be made results wise.

 

[Majors]

duplicate

 

[madtownvol]

a case could be made results wise.

No, not really. The program was in a downward spiral over Holly's last three years. Her first 4 years were solid with Sweet 16s and elite 8s.

But, her last three teams did not advance past the second round and she could not keep her star player Diamond DeShields in the fold, even after DD initially committed to using her remaining year of eligibility.

Interesting that you find Kellie getting to the Sweet 16 as being completely below the acceptable standard and grounds for being fired, yet you believe a case could me made for having kept Holly at the helm (even after she failed to advance to the Sweet 16 three years in a row).

 

[Advol]

How bad is it...................Starting to make Holly look good...........

 

[madtownvol]

How bad is it...................Starting to make Holly look good...........

That is a false narrative propagated by a few posters.

 

[LasVegasBill23]

This. But all we hear is, “But… but… Holly had Pat’s recruits.” I also think some people will not acknowledge that the type of players we have now and the way you have to handle them is different. Unfortunately Holly lost the team and we know the rest of that story, but I think she was a better coach than she got credit for.

holly was IMO a terrible coach i can remember mechanical moves she made or things she said which were inexplicable but she obviously still has a loyal following

 

[Coach Jumper]

No, not really. The program was in a downward spiral over Holly's last three years. Her first 4 years were solid with Sweet 16s and elite 8s.

But, her last three teams did not advance past the second round and she could not keep her star player Diamond DeShields in the fold, even after DD initially committed to using her remaining year of eligibility.

Interesting that you find Kellie getting to the Sweet 16 as being completely below the acceptable standard and grounds for being fired, yet you believe a case could me made for having kept Holly at the helm (even after she failed to advance to the Sweet 16 three years in a row).

anyone who wants Holly back,,,didn't experience the quickening spiral that was this program.
And yes, Kellie followed Holly
But Coach K has been here long enough to erase any ghosts
I gave this season's NCAA an E8 Mendoza line
And with two WNBA prospects, I considered higher (FF)

Something happened at some point bc the team I saw in the last game, was not the team I saw Saturday. The body english, from the gitgo, was different.

 

[FormerLadyVolFan]

...and interestingly Diamond DeShields is one of the former players that Rickea Jackson talked to on the bus back from the SEC tournament in Greenville when she was trying to decide whether to come back for another season.

Diamond advised her to stay...

But, her last three teams did not advance past the second round and she could not keep her star player Diamond DeShields in the fold, even after DD initially committed to using her remaining year of eligibility.

 

[T_Vol376]

holly was IMO a terrible coach i can remember mechanical moves she made or things she said which were inexplicable but she obviously still has a loyal following

I understand that she lost the team and once that happened they weren’t going to keep her. I don’t understand not wanting to give her credit for what she did accomplish. The personal insults she endured were gross - but we know what cures that.

 

[LasVegasBill23]

oklahoma texas a&m california maryland syracuse washington oregon oregon state mississippi state arizona all have been to the final 4 since we were there last so i dont want to celebrate sweet 16s

 

[LasVegasBill23]

I understand that she lost the team and once that happened they weren’t going to keep her. I don’t understand not wanting to give her credit for what she did accomplish. The personal insults she endured were gross - but we know what cures that.

i agree with you that the personal insults were way OOB but it remains my opinion that from the start she was clearly asst coaxh material not HC

 

[FormerLadyVolFan]

That reasoning would have got Pat fired several times.

Pat was a great, generational Hall of Fame coach, but things weren't always as rosy as some of you like to think.

If we fail to get past the S16 next year and don’t make a change, that means we accept being a B list program now. Pat did not toil for almost 40 years here with the intent that the whole thing would fall apart after she left.

 

[FormerLadyVolFan]

Those are the five words that will condemn your soul to eternal damnation!

I agree with you, Darth.

 

[T_Vol376]

Those are the five words that will condemn your soul to eternal damnation!

You don’t think Kellie had an EE caliber team this year?

 

[knoxvol52]

People complaining about KH I am old enough to remember coach PS first years wasn't a cake walk ,she is the greatest but she wasn't the toast of the town the first few years she was here. Actually she probably would have got fired these days with all these pissing and moaning fans we have.Let me rephrase that with the teams she had early on would have got her fired if there was all of the social media back in 70's and early 80's

 

[Darth_Vol]

Well I suppose we should have kept Holly?

Absolutely not, they should have hired a more proven coach to replace her. Even the Kellie stans will admit, she likely doesn't get this job based on her coaching resume alone...

 

[Golfteacher]

If winning the SEC and national titles is our culture, then why have we not won a natty since 2008? We are not far from some LA Tech alumni talking about how making it to the final 4 is their culture. Yeah, there was a time but the world has shifted.

Our last SEC title came under Holly in the 2014-15 so we have a drought there as well. On a more positive trend, Kellie getting the LVs back to the Sweet 16 was their first appearance since the 2015-16 season, so that reversed a 6 year negative trend.

The biggest issue i see for the LVs under Kellie is that her team is a mirror of the Pat Summitt's LVs in terms of playing style BUT South Carolina is the new Tennessee. They also play that style but have the current NC cred, the star coach, and the ability to get the kind of players to make that system work at a high level.

Just like Georgia under Andy Landers, could never beat Tennessee at their own game, it is hard to see how Kellie is ever going to leap frog SC in the SEC. But getting to be a solid 2nd best in the SEC could make Tennessee into a national force,

Key coming back buys Kellie a little time but she still needs some reinforcements through the portal (just how many depends on what Jordan H. decides to do). The recruiting is going to have pick-up no question or this will be a failed project.

Right now we are the third best team in the SEC with Miss State and Ole Miss are on our tail. Having zero recruits hurts a bunch, however, this can be retified with a good haul from the portal and/or JUCO. We need to add speed and a good point guard. KJH needs to convince herself that she does not have 10 D1 ballplayers that she can bring in and out against top level competition. With Jackson, TK and Holinshed returning she has three very good players to build from. Tess Darby need to work on her speed and to show up in big games again at top flight teams. Striplin has size and range on her shots, but needs a lot of work handling top flight post players.