Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[Majors]

Your perspective is expressed. I’m getting to know ya @Majors

Nothing wrong with being honest.

 

[chuckiepoo]

Nothing wrong with being honest.

Have seriously respected 99% of your softball opinions. They seem grounded and knowledgeable, generally backed up with quick searches.

Your opinions regarding LV wcbb seem a little biased toward the past.

 

[chuckiepoo]

Nothing wrong with being honest.

It just occurred to me. What better position for Kellie to have fallen into, than being compared to Rick Barnes?

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

Rule #1 as a parent. Don’t go to message boards to find answers. Rule #2, see rule number #1. If a message board paid or free deters a child from attending a school it’s probably best if they are looking for a reason. Joe Milton, undefeated since taking over, had a nice NIL and fans want Nico because Joe went 1 for 8 to open against AP.

I don't think it wise for parents and other influential folks with a recruit to engage in dialog on these boards, but using them as PART of their analysis of each schools fanbase is clearly a valid exercise. Never know when you might have to sit by some at the games, or publicly jump on their kids after a bad stretch. Setting your expectation is just a way to create plausible deniability if it becomes a factor. They will KNOW the other common defense is true, every fan base has them, but you cannot take the RISK out of posting on a public forum, nor the responsibility if it CAN be tied through reference to the loss of a recruit or player.

Fan actions on boards CAN become facts when referenced on competitors boards or on air. Do you not think our immediate post Kiffin TRAILER TRASH reputation fanned by ESPN and others did not have a real cost? Heck how often on this site do we see the OTHER BOARDS posts? Unfortunately sometimes perception, even if false or overblown, becomes a reality. Why unnecessarily fuel the engine? Venting vs discretion is what it is, and the impact of disgruntled fans and trolls can be weighted the same to the outside world.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

Depends on who you ask. Nothing to show for 1M+. Karen Weekly has almost two decades and multiple championships and WCWS making drastically less.

What is the revenue generation differential of the two sports?

 

[Knoxvol14]

And? Comparing equity, championships not just pay. Not saying they need to be equal…but Karen is underpaid for her resume vs. Harper being over paid.

She is paid comparable to her performance. The past two years we have been top 2-3 in tbe sec and the only sec team other than sc to make the sweet 16 the past two years. She makes 1.1 mil while you have dawn and mulkey earning 3 mil a year. What do you suggest kellie be paid? I'm sure out AD understands what he needs to pay.

As for softball coaches, they don't earn more than wbb coaches. We had an 8 year drought in softball of reaching the world series. They make the tourney every year but so does basketball. Statistically,

I don't understand your argument that Kellie is overpaid .

 

[VOLINVONORE]

And? Comparing equity, championships not just pay. Not saying they need to be equal…but Karen is underpaid for her resume vs. Harper being over paid.

Just not true.

 

[Majors]

She is paid comparable to her performance. The past two years we have been top 2-3 in tbe sec and the only sec team other than sc to make the sweet 16 the past two years. She makes 1.1 mil while you have dawn and mulkey earning 3 mil a year. What do you suggest kellie be paid? I'm sure out AD understands what he needs to pay.

As for softball coaches, they don't earn more than wbb coaches. We had an 8 year drought in softball of reaching the world series. They make the tourney every year but so does basketball. Statistically,

I don't understand your argument that Kellie is overpaid .

Those coaches you mentioned have multiple national titles to validate their earnings. You chose to say we along with SC have been the only SEC teams to make the SS while overlooking LSU went straight to the top in the same time.

Oklahoma HC in softball makes about 1M more than the basketball coach. Gasso is the Summitt or Saban of softball and should be compensated as such. Based off results, Kellie shouldn’t be in the million range and Weekly should be well above what she’s making now. White isn’t increasing her salary based off demand and other teams calling offering her more, until she can get past the minimum expectation of SS she should be compensated as such.

 

[Majors]

Just not true.

How so?

 

[Knoxvol14]

Those coaches you mentioned have multiple national titles to validate their earnings. You chose to say we along with SC have been the only SEC teams to make the SS while overlooking LSU went straight to the top in the same time.

Oklahoma HC in softball makes about 1M more than the basketball coach. Gasso is the Summitt or Saban of softball and should be compensated as such. Based off results, Kellie shouldn’t be in the million range and Weekly should be well above what she’s making now. White isn’t increasing her salary based off demand and other teams calling offering her more, until she can get past the minimum expectation of SS she should be compensated as such.

Yes they do and Kellie makes a third of what they make. It's not like we are paying her remotely close to the top paid coaches.

The OU softball coach is the only coach paid over a million. Karen isthe tenth higest paid softball coach and I'd bet she will be getting more soon.

 

[glv98]

Interesting that some who say KJH is overpaid were also mad that UTAD was not willing to lay out big bucks for a Mulkey or someone 5 yrs ago. In part, you are paying the position as well as the individual. In order to spring for the big bucks next time, I think it's wise to continue to pump the position up so that 3 million is not a huge sticker shock on the next hire. Also makes the position attractive to big timers. I don't think that leap in $ gets made all at once. We kinda proved that last time.

Pumping the position up does bring along extra pressure on the current coach to perform. KJH has GOT to bring it this season.

 

[Majors]

Yes they do and Kellie makes a third of what they make. It's not like we are paying her remotely close to the top paid coaches.

The OU softball coach is the only coach paid over a million. Karen isthe tenth higest paid softball coach and I'd bet she will be getting more soon.

It’s all in how you view ROI. You said make a 1/3 but doesn’t have 1/3 of their success to show. We view it differently.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

How so?

The reasons why have been clearly stated and you just refuse to bash her. Enough said

 

[Majors]

The reasons why have been clearly stated and you just refuse to bash her. Enough said

not sure I’m following.

 

[Bakers1]

And? Comparing equity, championships not just pay. Not saying they need to be equal…but Karen is underpaid for her resume vs. Harper being over paid.

It's far from an accurate or objective analysis to compare Coach's salaries in two different sports. There is something called "market value".. The highest paid Div I softball coach is Patti Gasso at 1.25 million annually. Weekly is paid $340,000 annually and she;'s the #10 in the top 10. So the vast majority makes less than 200K. The market value for this position doesn't compare to Div ! Basketballl at all. There's way too much room for subjectivity when comparing.

In Basketball the top 25 coaches make 700K up and the top 10 all over a million. There is no way to objectively use one sport's salaries to prove a point to others. Would you compare the salaries of a lawyer and an factory worker to make a point?

Lastly, when comparing coaches of the same sport I do agree Weekly is way underpaid.....Kelly has had more success than some of the names making more money (Scott Rueck, Courtney Banghart, Joni Taylor, Kim Barnes Arico) Just my opinion

Lisa Bluder	Iowa	$1,091,394 million
9	Kelly Graves	Oregon	$1,025,000 million
10	Adia Barnes	Arizona	$1,012,000 million
11	Kevin McGuff	Ohio State	$980,860
12	Sue Semrau	Florida State	$975,333
13	Wes Moore	North Carolina St.	$895,000
14	Scott Rueck	Oregon State	$879,452
15	Kim Barnes Arico	Michigan	$853,000
16	Joni Taylor	Georgia	$850,000
17	Courtney Banghart	North Carolina	$840,000
18	Kellie Harper	Tennessee	$800,000

 

[Majors]

I’m so glad I blocked Minor.

hmmm

 

[Majors]

It's far from an accurate or objective analysis to compare Coach's salaries in two different sports. There is something called "market value".. The highest paid Div I softball coach is Patti Gasso at 1.25 million annually. Weekly is paid $340,000 annually and she;'s the #10 in the top 10. So the vast majority makes less than 200K. The market value for this position doesn't compare to Div ! Basketballl at all. There's way too much room for subjectivity when comparing.

In Basketball the top 25 coaches make 700K up and the top 10 all over a million. There is no way to objectively use one sport's salaries to prove a point to others. Would you compare the salaries of a lawyer and an factory worker to make a point?

Lastly, when comparing coaches of the same sport I do agree Weekly is way underpaid.....Kelly has had more success than some of the names making more money (Scott Rueck, Courtney Banghart, Joni Taylor, Kim Barnes Arico) Just my opinion

Lisa Bluder	Iowa	$1,091,394 million
9	Kelly Graves	Oregon	$1,025,000 million
10	Adia Barnes	Arizona	$1,012,000 million
11	Kevin McGuff	Ohio State	$980,860
12	Sue Semrau	Florida State	$975,333
13	Wes Moore	North Carolina St.	$895,000
14	Scott Rueck	Oregon State	$879,452
15	Kim Barnes Arico	Michigan	$853,000
16	Joni Taylor	Georgia	$850,000
17	Courtney Banghart	North Carolina	$840,000
18	Kellie Harper	Tennessee	$800,000

I’m all for fair market value. This evolved as it was said by another poster “I would not pin Kellie as a highly compensated coach. Women's salaries have increased as they should.” 3Meeks

At 1.1M, I’d say that is more than compensated under fair market value on no titles to show. I used Karen as someone who is under compensated for longevity and championships.

 

[creekdipper]

I'm bored.

 

[woodpusher]

Interesting that some who say KJH is overpaid were also mad that UTAD was not willing to lay out big bucks for a Mulkey or someone 5 yrs ago. In part, you are paying the position as well as the individual. In order to spring for the big bucks next time, I think it's wise to continue to pump the position up so that 3 million is not a huge sticker shock on the next hire. Also makes the position attractive to big timers. I don't think that leap in $ gets made all at once. We kinda proved that last time.

Pumping the position up does bring along extra pressure on the current coach to perform. KJH has GOT to bring it this season.

Attendance is what, 8500 per game? Maybe TV/radio revenue is up; I don't know. If Kellie wants more money, she has to sell the game to the fans.

 

[knoxvol52]

Interesting that some who say KJH is overpaid were also mad that UTAD was not willing to lay out big bucks for a Mulkey or someone 5 yrs ago. In part, you are paying the position as well as the individual. In order to spring for the big bucks next time, I think it's wise to continue to pump the position up so that 3 million is not a huge sticker shock on the next hire. Also makes the position attractive to big timers. I don't think that leap in $ gets made all at once. We kinda proved that last time.

Pumping the position up does bring along extra pressure on the current coach to perform. KJH has GOT to bring it this season.

Mulkey was a proven winner.....

 

[LadyVol1908]

I’m bringing out my pitchfork if we don’t make an EE or FF this year, I’m sorry!

This will be our most talented roster in quite some time, Kellie needs to coach THIS season! If she can’t get it done, barring no major injuries, I’ll have lost complete confidence in her.

Elite Eight is the floor for me, with a Final Four as the expectation. This team is too deep, SEASONED, and talented not to make a run in the tournament. I really hope Kellie can figure it out!

 

[Coach Jumper]

I’m bringing out my pitchfork if we don’t make an EE or FF this year, I’m sorry!

This will be our most talented roster in quite some time, Kellie needs to coach THIS season! If she can’t get it done, barring no major injuries, I’ll have lost complete confidence in her.

Elite Eight is the floor for me, with a Final Four as the expectation. This team is too deep, SEASONED, and talented not to make a run in the tournament. I really hope Kellie can figure it out!

You're in good company

 

[Lucy]

It's far from an accurate or objective analysis to compare Coach's salaries in two different sports. There is something called "market value".. The highest paid Div I softball coach is Patti Gasso at 1.25 million annually. Weekly is paid $340,000 annually and she;'s the #10 in the top 10. So the vast majority makes less than 200K. The market value for this position doesn't compare to Div ! Basketballl at all. There's way too much room for subjectivity when comparing.

In Basketball the top 25 coaches make 700K up and the top 10 all over a million. There is no way to objectively use one sport's salaries to prove a point to others. Would you compare the salaries of a lawyer and an factory worker to make a point?

Lastly, when comparing coaches of the same sport I do agree Weekly is way underpaid.....Kelly has had more success than some of the names making more money (Scott Rueck, Courtney Banghart, Joni Taylor, Kim Barnes Arico) Just my opinion

Lisa Bluder	Iowa	$1,091,394 million
9	Kelly Graves	Oregon	$1,025,000 million
10	Adia Barnes	Arizona	$1,012,000 million
11	Kevin McGuff	Ohio State	$980,860
12	Sue Semrau	Florida State	$975,333
13	Wes Moore	North Carolina St.	$895,000
14	Scott Rueck	Oregon State	$879,452
15	Kim Barnes Arico	Michigan	$853,000
16	Joni Taylor	Georgia	$850,000
17	Courtney Banghart	North Carolina	$840,000
18	Kellie Harper	Tennessee	$800,000

KJH needs and deserves a raise. No way LV head coach should not receive top ten money!

 

[turbovol]

Harper's salary is irrelevant. The only relevant question is whether she can get the program back to the top of WCB,
and the answer so far, after 5 years, has been a decided 'no.' The program's high-school recruiting has been beyond bad--only a couple of
seemingly solid transfer classes have probably kept her from being sacked, frankly. She's tracking as a coach who can't achieve what she was essentially hired to do but does enough to keep her job. And the problem with doing just enough to keep your job is that the AD ends up giving the coach extensions because she can always point to one or two somewhat misleading accomplishments, which only ensures more years of mediocrity or mediocrity plus, if you wish.

 

[turbovol]

KJH needs and deserves a raise. No way LV head coach should not receive top ten money!

You should get paid based on your accomplishments, not on the mere fact that you're running the program.