Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

#3,851
#3,851
Failure to extend a coach is a clear red flag to everybody. especially recruits and opposing recruiters. This makes recruiting even more difficult and puts the coach in an almost unwinnable situation. If you don't trust them enough to extend, you must be ready to look for a new coach.

I am a fan of Coach Kellie and hope the injuries stay away and the results improve, but saying the high school recruiting needs to improve is correct. I am not as unhappy with the in-game coaching as are some others, but the run of serious medical issues has to stop if we are to get a true picture of her coaching ability (yes, I know overcoming adversity is part of it, but when you continually have key players out during critical games, it severely limits what even good coaching can accomplish).
 
#3,853
#3,853
Hexad Vol said:
Failure to extend a coach is a clear red flag to everybody. especially recruits and opposing recruiters. This makes recruiting even more difficult and puts the coach in an almost unwinnable situation. If you don't trust them enough to extend, you must be ready to look for a new coach.

I am a fan of Coach Kellie and hope the injuries stay away and the results improve, but saying the high school recruiting needs to improve is correct. I am not as unhappy with the in-game coaching as are some others, but the run of serious medical issues has to stop if we are to get a true picture of her coaching ability (yes, I know overcoming adversity is part of it, but when you continually have key players out during critical games, it severely limits what even good coaching can accomplish).
Click to expand...

yea, yea, yea: Everybody was still making excuses for Warlick after six/seven years--maybe the worst coach in D1. Must be the "Lady Vol" thing. White and his staff should be looking now....You're worried that no extension might hurt recruiting? You do see the irony in that, I hope.
 
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#3,854
#3,854
Hexad Vol said:
Failure to extend a coach is a clear red flag to everybody. especially recruits and opposing recruiters. This makes recruiting even more difficult and puts the coach in an almost unwinnable situation. If you don't trust them enough to extend, you must be ready to look for a new coach.

I am a fan of Coach Kellie and hope the injuries stay away and the results improve, but saying the high school recruiting needs to improve is correct. I am not as unhappy with the in-game coaching as are some others, but the run of serious medical issues has to stop if we are to get a true picture of her coaching ability (yes, I know overcoming adversity is part of it, but when you continually have key players out during critical games, it severely limits what even good coaching can accomplish).
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Extensions are meaningless with the money these universities have for the buyouts. Hollys last extension would have expired last year had she not been fired.
 
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#3,855
#3,855
turbovol said:
If I'm AD White, my attitude to Harper at this point would be brass tacks: Either
show genuine progress in the NCAA tourney, show that that program is on the ascendancy, show that you can
significantly improve recruiting, or I can't give you another extension.

The goal should be very plain---get the program back to the top, and there should be demonstrable evidence
of momentum in that direction. (There hasn't been.) I don't know if
White quite feels this way, but he should. We've muddled along with Harper for five years and could easily
muddle along with her for another five years. It depends on the expectations of the AD and the fans and
others at the school. Analyzed against the pedigree of the program, Harper has been mediocre. That's
the word. If we were Auburn or Southern Miss or Utah or pick 100 other schools, then I, as AD, might
be satisfied with the coach's performance to date. But we're not. We're a program with 8 national
titles, and so the expectations are--and should be--higher. I wouldn't be happy with a program that's
a 6 or 6.5 on a ten-point scale just because a former "Lady Vol" is in charge.

My expectations would be high, and I would not be averse to making a change--soon--if it
becomes clear that the current coach cannot meet those expectations. In 5 years has Harper made demonstrable
progress in getting us back into the national title picture? No, not at all. Coming in 3rd in the SEC, getting
into the NCAA, beating a couple of cupcakes at home and then again losing to the first decent team we play?
That's been our high-water mark under Harper. Not good enough. Lousy high-school recruiting year after year?
Uh, completely unacceptable.

White and others in his department should also be making a serious effort to assess other coaches and to identify a small number who seem to have
the smarts and the tenacity--the coaching success and the personality---to truly fire up this program. That's something that
Fulmer didn't do.
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Only thing I'd disagree with is that Harper has made zero progress forward. She has; unfortunately the biggest part of her success has not been on court. She's definitely pulled the wagon out of the ditch as far the broken culture of the later Holly days. I think she's made it a cool, fun, obviously very tempting place to play again, explains all the visits. But she just hasn't been able to get the wins she needs to close the deal and add contender to cool and fun place.

KJH has to win some big games this season. Period. Has to be competitive in all of them. If she can't, with this roster, then I'd have to agree KJH is what she is as a coach., She's been a great 'tweener to straighten some mess out, but if she can't show we belong this season she's likely plateaued as a coach. We'd need to move on to a high dollar coach with proven success in order to break on thru to the other side. Danny White seems like a guy who just might do that.
 
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#3,856
#3,856
All you fire kelly people are losing one of your talking points. I said a few weeks ago tennessee quarterback took step back from last yeaar this year. No disrespect to tenn other point guards on kelly but wells might be point guard to get vols to ncaa final 8. Point guard makes every team-mate and coaches better or worst. I hoping tennessee see's best point guard on kelly in her time on rocky top. Closeing Josh and knonnews have lost some of that honeymoon shine. Still think Josh might get it done but for you all who say kelly should get it done in four years or leave get some other talking point than the football coach.
 
#3,860
#3,860
mudcat1973 said:
All you fire kelly people are losing one of your talking points. I said a few weeks ago tennessee quarterback took step back from last yeaar this year. No disrespect to tenn other point guards on kelly but wells might be point guard to get vols to ncaa final 8. Point guard makes every team-mate and coaches better or worst. I hoping tennessee see's best point guard on kelly in her time on rocky top. Closeing Josh and knonnews have lost some of that honeymoon shine. Still think Josh might get it done but for you all who say kelly should get it done in four years or leave get some other talking point than the football coach.
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Neither are in any present or future danger of getting fired. You just have to ignore the people that write click bait stories and people that are calling for a coach to be fired everytime they lose a game. How dumb would Tennessee be to fire Heupel with what he has done already and that class of freshmen he has coming in. Kellie may need to get a recruiter somewhere down the line or just continue to kill the portal. Either is fine with me if either way results in winning.
 
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#3,863
#3,863
tennrich1 said:
Sorry…I might need an interpreter…or is it just me🤷‍♂️. Idk.
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Vols football not going to playoffs till Quartbak improves. Josh has a star recuit in freshmen quarterback. Fan's are giving him time. I think kelly's team this year is her best team for talent wise. My way of saying give it rest for the want b's ad on here. At least wait till we see how season play's out
 
#3,866
#3,866
mudcat1973 said:
For all the football posters on vol nation. If you do not read women's much of the time. You missed more few pages to this debate or story.
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There’s no debate. Crossroads year for Kellie to show she can win and get past the S16. Football team has been #1 under CJH.

Only debate is why is Knox News still in business.
 
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#3,868
#3,868
Coach Jumper said:
might want to let this thread pass on MC,,,this is a Lady Vol forum
just a suggestion
Click to expand...

Coach Jumper said:
might want to let this thread pass on MC,,,this is a Lady Vol forum
just a suggestion
Click to expand...

Coach Jumper said:
might want to let this thread pass on MC,,,this is a Lady Vol forum
just a suggestion
Click to expand...
I knew i was muding creek when said about football. like tenn football coach jumper. It clear up in a few days. But have no long turn plans for this one. As far as the what's wrong with this guy reomarks.. They just do not get mudcat speech. Thats ok in mudcat land.
 
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#3,870
#3,870
Coach Jumper said:
might want to let this thread pass on MC,,,this is a Lady Vol forum
just a suggestion
Click to expand...
I posted should have posted on this thread. Then some one of the moderarater's move it in a few minutes. They had the same idea is you coach jumper. Thanks to which ever one of the moderarater's you are. Coach jumper this one streaming box is more easier to use than my fire sticks and it even give's subjects of what to say next. And it spelling words for me just click on top of the the key board. This makes it harder to speak mudcat thanks to which ever one of the moderarater's move this to this thread. Thank you moderarater's which ever one of you move this here this morning. @moderater's Thanks from mudcat.
 
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#3,872
#3,872
Volfan2012 said:
Neither are in any present or future danger of getting fired. You just have to ignore the people that write click bait stories and people that are calling for a coach to be fired everytime they lose a game. How dumb would Tennessee be to fire Heupel with what he has done already and that class of freshmen he has coming in. Kellie may need to get a recruiter somewhere down the line or just continue to kill the portal. Either is fine with me if either way results in winning.
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This may be KH make or break season...talented team ,high expectations....if this team stumbles in SEC and NCAA tournament..I can see Danny White.. considering moving on from KH..
 
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#3,873
#3,873
knoxvol52 said:
This may be KH make or break season...talented team ,high expectations....if this team stumbles in SEC and NCAA tournament..I can see Danny White.. considering moving on from KH..
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I believe there no for sure firering if Vols do not make pass the round of the sweet sixteen like a lot some on here say. It could happen but only four seasons on rockey top counting this year. Still having player's backing her hot likely my friends. Holly her team had seven years to make a go. If player's still support her highlyuunlikely for sure firering coming year four of Kelly era here.



That being said this has reel chance of making a deeper run in this year's NCAA tournament.If the University still support her she's more than likely gets to coach past this year.
 
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#3,874
#3,874
Volfan2012 said:
Neither are in any present or future danger of getting fired. You just have to ignore the people that write click bait stories and people that are calling for a coach to be fired everytime they lose a game. How dumb would Tennessee be to fire Heupel with what he has done already and that class of freshmen he has coming in. Kellie may need to get a recruiter somewhere down the line or just continue to kill the portal. Either is fine with me if either way results in winning.
Click to expand...

Agree (focusing on the Kellie part). To put the situation in context, the LVs last championship (and final 4 appearance) was 2007-2008. That gap includes several elite 8 losses and several early round exists. When Kellie took the helm, the LVs final four drought had reached the 11 year mark.

So, all the people writing about holding to the LVs high standards, unrelenting expectations, and not accepting anything less than Final Four acceptances because we are TENNESSEE, have in fact, not been single handedly been maintatining the program's elite status through their uncompromising social media posts. And while they may claim "to not accept anything less than a Final four" over these years, the actual outcomes suggest that have in fact been denying reality.

When it comes to making a coaching change, I seriously doubt the AD is thinking "okay, with this roster anything less than a final four is a fireable offense!!" As long as the LVs don't objectively fall backwards -- finish lower in the SEC or fail to make the sweet 16--Kellie is secure. It would be too hard to justify firing someone who is making conventional standards of success. It took three consecutive early exits for Holly to get fired (her #1 ranked recruiting classes bought her some time). I do think Kellie would have a shorter leash. She can't afford a regress year or that would likely be the end of her time as HC.

I do see this season as a make or break in the longer term, though. If the LVs get to the final four, that will be a boost to recruiting (for both portal and HS recruits). On the flip side, falling short with a star power team could easily have the opposite effect and then it is only a matter of time.

But I am keeping it optimistic-- this season is the one where Kellie and the LVs break through.
 
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#3,875
#3,875
madtownvol said:
Agree (focusing on the Kellie part). To put the situation in context, the LVs last championship (and final 4 appearance) was 2007-2008. That gap includes several elite 8 losses and several early round exists. When Kellie took the helm, the LVs final four drought had reached the 11 year mark.

So, all the people writing about holding to the LVs high standards, unrelenting expectations, and not accepting anything less than Final Four acceptances because we are TENNESSEE, have in fact, not been single handedly been maintatining the program's elite status through their uncompromising social media posts. And while they may claim "to not accept anything less than a Final four" over these years, the actual outcomes suggest that have in fact been denying reality.

When it comes to making a coaching change, I seriously doubt the AD is thinking "okay, with this roster anything less than a final four is a fireable offense!!" As long as the LVs don't objectively fall backwards -- finish lower in the SEC or fail to make the sweet 16--Kellie is secure. It would be too hard to justify firing someone who is making conventional standards of success. It took three consecutive early exits for Holly to get fired (her #1 ranked recruiting classes bought her some time). I do think Kellie would have a shorter leash. She can't afford a regress year or that would likely be the end of her time as HC.

I do see this season as a make or break in the longer term, though. If the LVs get to the final four, that will be a boost to recruiting (for both portal and HS recruits). On the flip side, falling short with a star power team could easily have the opposite effect and then it is only a matter of time.

But I am keeping it optimistic-- this season is the one where Kellie and the LVs break through.
Click to expand...
We don’t have all this Star Power as u say, we have one elite player in Rickea and one star in Spear, everything else is unknown. We need to see how this plays out.
 
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