Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

#4,326
#4,326
Top Wbb Cocahes

Won a Natty
Geno
Tara
Mulkey
Dawn
Brenda Freese
Vic Schafer

Final Four
Kenny Brooks*
Jeff Walz
Lisa Bluder*
Adia Barnes*
Kelly Graves
(* runner up)

Elite Eight
Cori Close
Wes Moore
Katie Meier (miami)

Am I missing anyone? I see all this coaching discussion but no hard facts.
Barnes and Graves have basically given up after having 1 (or more) star player(s)… (Rickea could be that for Kellie) both missed the Round of 32

Close is on the rise
Meier is underrated imo
Moore is inconsistent like Barnes and Graves
Walz probably runs the most consistent program and consistently reaches deep in tournament with “bad teams”
Bluder is basically a one trick Clark but can prove otherwise
Brooks is in his prime with his stars but can he win a Natty? Will they even be good when they leave?

I see no reason any of the National champion coaches would leave their schools.

Maybe Freese but highly highly doubt. Also they are sucking this year too..
 
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#4,328
#4,328
Give me a young offensive minded coach like our football team has. Let's make
it an entertaining game with speed and 3 point shooters and a couple big defensive ladies.
I don't know any but I do not watch much women games as the Lady Vols are so hard to watch
and I am losing interest in the program with each passing year. I am sure there are many
young coaches that would kill to come to UT to coach.

Just wondering if LV NIL program is that weak or just missing on evaluation of players?
 
#4,329
#4,329
gymmlover said:
Give me a young offensive minded coach like our football team has. Let's make
it an entertaining game with speed and 3 point shooters and a couple big defensive ladies.
I don't know any but I do not watch much women games as the Lady Vols are so hard to watch
and I am losing interest in the program with each passing year. I am sure there are many
young coaches that would kill to come to UT to coach.

Just wondering if LV NIL program is that weak or just missing on evaluation of players?
Click to expand...
We were top 5 in scoring offense to start the Szn lol
 
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#4,330
#4,330
gymmlover said:
Just wondering if LV NIL program is that weak or just missing on evaluation of players?
Click to expand...

Every player on South Carolina’s roster gets 25k just for signing up. And there’s more after that. It’s known that other schools have some great deals out there as well.

Pretty sure UT’s players don’t start off 25k in the green. For whatever reasons, (and there are many, from what folks say) UT is not competitive in women’s basketball NIL right now.
 
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#4,332
#4,332
VolFuture said:
Top Wbb Cocahes

Won a Natty
Geno
Tara
Mulkey
Dawn
Brenda Freese

Final Four
Kenny Brooks*
Jeff Walz
Lisa Bluder*
Adia Barnes*
Kelly Graves
(* runner up)

Elite Eight
Cori Close
Wes Moore
Katie Meier (miami)

Am I missing anyone? I see all this coaching discussion but no hard facts.
Barnes and Graves have basically given up after having 1 (or more) star player(s)… (Rickea could be that for Kellie) both missed the Round of 32

Close is on the rise
Meier is underrated imo
Moore is inconsistent like Barnes and Graves
Walz probably runs the most consistent program and consistently reaches deep in tournament with “bad teams”
Bluder is basically a one trick Clark but can prove otherwise
Brooks is in his prime with his stars but can he win a Natty? Will they even be good when they leave?

I see no reason any of the National champion coaches would leave their schools.

Maybe Freese but highly highly doubt. Also they are sucking this year too..
Click to expand...
Please look at Shawn Poppie of UTC. I know he has coached only 2 seasons including this season. I believe he is a future Wes Moore, without the inconsistent results you mentioned. BTW, you left out Vic Schaefer in your discussion. He is a top WCBB coach IMHO.
 
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#4,333
#4,333
Voltopia said:
Every player on South Carolina’s roster gets 25k just for signing up. And there’s more after that. It’s known that other schools have some great deals out there as well.

Pretty sure UT’s players don’t start off 25k in the green. For whatever reasons, (and there are many, from what folks say) UT is not competitive in women’s basketball NIL right now.
Click to expand...

The corruption of major-college athletics. Seedy.
 
#4,334
#4,334
Voltopia said:
Every player on South Carolina’s roster gets 25k just for signing up. And there’s more after that. It’s known that other schools have some great deals out there as well.

Pretty sure UT’s players don’t start off 25k in the green. For whatever reasons, (and there are many, from what folks say) UT is not competitive in women’s basketball NIL right now.
Click to expand...
For the umpteenth time, the upfront signing bonus is not NIL. Has nothing to do with it, except it somehow snuck into the picture when real NIL came into being. Many say the signing fee has been there forever, just out in the open now. Actual NIL is just what it says, athletes getting a cut when their name, image and likeness is sold.

And no, apparently the LVs are not able to keep up in the signing bonus free for all.

To see the signing bonus in all it's glory, look at the football transfer portal right now. Players are leaving teams right and left for the highest bidder. P5 quarterbacks apparently going for 1.5-2 mil. Very much like free agency in the pros. While it sounds sleazy, the coaches certainly have no problem raking in the dough, even for not coaching. So hard to begrudge the kids who do the actual work a cut.
 
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#4,335
#4,335
glv98 said:
And no, apparently the LVs are not able to keep up in the signing bonus free for all.

To see the signing bonus in all it's glory, look at the football transfer portal right now. Players are leaving teams right and left for the highest bidder. P5 quarterbacks apparently going for 1.5-2 mil. Very much like free agency in the pros. While it sounds sleazy, the coaches certainly have no problem raking in the dough, even for not coaching. So hard to begrudge the kids who do the actual work a cut.
Click to expand...
It's hard to criticize players getting some cheese while coaches are getting larger and larger pay packages.
 
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#4,336
#4,336
Max Roguespierre said:
It's hard to criticize players getting some cheese while coaches are getting larger and larger pay packages.
Click to expand...
Including amounts NOT to coach that would feed a small, starving nation. There's a funny meme going around where a kid is asked what he wants to be when he grows up. His answer: a fired college football coach.
 
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#4,337
#4,337
Nute Gunray said:
Please look at Shawn Poppie of UTC. I know he has coached only 2 seasons including this season. I believe he is a future Wes Moore, without the inconsistent results you mentioned. BTW, you left out Vic Schaefer in your discussion. He is a top WCBB coach IMHO.
Click to expand...
for my choice for rebuilding our program i would steer clear of Moore (66) or Schaefer (62)
 
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#4,340
#4,340
glv98 said:
For the umpteenth time, the upfront signing bonus is not NIL. Has nothing to do with it, except it somehow snuck into the picture when real NIL came into being. Many say the signing fee has been there forever, just out in the open now. Actual NIL is just what it says, athletes getting a cut when their name, image and likeness is sold.

And no, apparently the LVs are not able to keep up in the signing bonus free for all.

To see the signing bonus in all it's glory, look at the football transfer portal right now. Players are leaving teams right and left for the highest bidder. P5 quarterbacks apparently going for 1.5-2 mil. Very much like free agency in the pros. While it sounds sleazy, the coaches certainly have no problem raking in the dough, even for not coaching. So hard to begrudge the kids who do the actual work a cut.
Click to expand...
please explain how you can have signing bonus and it not be NIL.

I thought there was no way to pass money to players before SCOTUS legalized NIL.

FYI…I am asking a serious question here because I don’t understand.
 
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#4,341
#4,341
glv98 said:
For the umpteenth time, the upfront signing bonus is not NIL. Has nothing to do with it, except it somehow snuck into the picture when real NIL came into being. Many say the signing fee has been there forever, just out in the open now. Actual NIL is just what it says, athletes getting a cut when their name, image and likeness is sold.

And no, apparently the LVs are not able to keep up in the signing bonus free for all.

To see the signing bonus in all it's glory, look at the football transfer portal right now. Players are leaving teams right and left for the highest bidder. P5 quarterbacks apparently going for 1.5-2 mil. Very much like free agency in the pros. While it sounds sleazy, the coaches certainly have no problem raking in the dough, even for not coaching. So hard to begrudge the kids who do the actual work a cut.
Click to expand...
Schools can't pay signing bonuses. Where you getting this from? It has to be NIL or the collective paying it.
 
#4,342
#4,342
Voltopia said:
Every player on South Carolina’s roster gets 25k just for signing up. And there’s more after that. It’s known that other schools have some great deals out there as well.

Pretty sure UT’s players don’t start off 25k in the green. For whatever reasons, (and there are many, from what folks say) UT is not competitive in women’s basketball NIL right now.
Click to expand...
It's that weak.
 
#4,343
#4,343
AllVols3 said:
Schools can't pay signing bonuses. Where you getting this from? It has to be NIL or the collective paying it.
Click to expand...
Correct. Schools are not supposed to be involved. It's collectives or wealthy private donors offering the up front on behalf of the uninvolved school. Again, that's seperate from NIL compensation. Unrelated.

I believe schools can be involved in NIL by offering tax advice, guidance, etc.
 
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#4,344
#4,344
Nute Gunray said:
Please look at Shawn Poppie of UTC. I know he has coached only 2 seasons including this season. I believe he is a future Wes Moore, without the inconsistent results you mentioned. BTW, you left out Vic Schaefer in your discussion. He is a top WCBB coach IMHO.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah ofc he is elite eight last two and a natty win ofc
 
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#4,345
#4,345
glv98 said:
Correct. Schools are not supposed to be involved. It's collectives or wealthy private donors offering the up front on behalf of the uninvolved school. Again, that's seperate from NIL compensation. Unrelated.

I believe schools can be involved in NIL by offering tax advice, guidance, etc.
Click to expand...
Well we need someone to step up and start paying these signing bonuses. We are so far behind talent wise.
 
#4,346
#4,346
Nobody in college is getting a "signing bonus." That is nonsense. I've never heard of it. And I'm not sure how NIL came to be corrupted
and turned into a recruiting tool. It's buill$hit. I think it happened because there's no leadership in college sports any longer, the NCAA having had its wings clipped by a couple of legal challenges.

But college sports needs leadership--and it needs ethical guardrails. We seem to be a period of "anything goes," and that's not what college is supposed to be about. It's also not supposed to be about turning 18-year-olds in cynical mercenaries looking for the biggest cash grab they can wangle from desperate schools. What's also insane about NIL in recruiting is that a lot of top prospects--in all sports--do not pan out at the major-college level. It's a big jump. So you've got boosters/collectives apparently throwing money at kids with absolutely no guarantee that they'll even become good college players. It's ridiculous.
 
#4,347
#4,347
glv98 said:
For the umpteenth time, the upfront signing bonus is not NIL. Has nothing to do with it, except it somehow snuck into the picture when real NIL came into being. Many say the signing fee has been there forever, just out in the open now. Actual NIL is just what it says, athletes getting a cut when their name, image and likeness is sold.

And no, apparently the LVs are not able to keep up in the signing bonus free for all.

To see the signing bonus in all it's glory, look at the football transfer portal right now. Players are leaving teams right and left for the highest bidder. P5 quarterbacks apparently going for 1.5-2 mil. Very much like free agency in the pros. While it sounds sleazy, the coaches certainly have no problem raking in the dough, even for not coaching. So hard to begrudge the kids who do the actual work a cut.
Click to expand...

That's a semantic argument. From what I've read, it is part of a NIL deal every player at South Carolina gets offered when they come to Columbia. Someone could say "that's not NIL in spirit," but that argument isn't material to the fact the players get 25k in an NIL deal when they join the team. Even if you want to say it's a signing bonus, they don't call it that, and there's no framework or appetite to challenge either it or South Carolina's NIL program at the moment.

So no matter what anyone wants to call it, South Carolina's players get 25k in NIL payments a year minimum. Call it whatever - it happens. There is a mechanism in place to compensate their women's basketball players from day 1.

And what gets me about this situation is that you get people who gripe about Harper and her recruiting, lay the blame entirely at her feet, but really, how much more do they need to see to understand that Tennessee has one hand, and possibly both hands, tied behind its back? Is UT throwing 20-30k at people just for walking through the door? No? They're not? Hmm, and South Carolina is? Wow. Gosh. I wonder how that impacts recruiting top players who can command the highest dollar values in NIL deals. I'm not saying she's without responsibility, or even saying Tennessee should just roll out barrels of money at a whim, but I am saying UT's not on equal footing with other schools at present and that impacts recruiting.
 
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#4,349
#4,349
glv98 said:
While I have a real fondness and familiarity with the demographic, I can almost guarantee the next coach will not be an older white male.
Click to expand...
Why you say that, not allowed to hire men for women’s coach. What are you thinking or know
 
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