Kentucky vs Florida (@ the Swamp)

#377
#377
Brian McCat said:
Hoping CBJ feels the same way in a few weeks....
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Why would you want us to lose to Florida? What difference does it make? Is it just your big blue blood boiling over Butch's burgeoning...uh...bagpipers?

I was trying to practice my alliteration. Bagpipers doesn't work, I guess.
 
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#378
#378
I was referring to when UK plays UT, and 2 thumbs up on the alliteration.

GoBigOrange86 said:
Why would you want us to lose to Florida? What difference does it make? Is it just your big blue blood boiling over Butch's burgeoning...uh...bagpipers?

I was trying to practice my alliteration. Bagpipers doesn't work, I guess.
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#379
#379
Brian McCat said:
I was referring to when UK plays UT, and 2 thumbs up on the alliteration.
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It's hard for Tennessee fans not to roll their eyes at this the same way a Bama fan might react to a Tennessee fan who talks about our improvement....We have heard this improvement line before and it's still been since Reagan's first term that Kentucky won in Neyland...and only twice in my lifetime they've won in Neyland. (I'm 41).
 
#380
#380
BowlBrother85 said:
It's hard for Tennessee fans not to roll their eyes at this the same way a Bama fan might react to a Tennessee fan who talks about our improvement....We have heard this improvement line before and it's still been since Reagan's first term that Kentucky won in Neyland...and only twice in my lifetime they've won in Neyland. (I'm 41).
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Oh, come on. You have to give some credit where it's due. Stoops is a good coach and Kentucky IS getting better. The question is whether Kentucky is better or Florida is not...and like most things, it's probably a little of both. Florida is not improving like they want (I guess we'll have a better sense of that in a month or so), but Kentucky is demonstrably better with Stoops.

And, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, for the last several years it's rare for Kentucky not to give us a game (2005 is an exception, 2008 sorta is, 2012 was close until later on). I think sitting back in thinking "We can't lose to them because they're Kentucky" is awfully shortsighted. Kentucky flirted with beating us in Neyland several times in recent memory.
 
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#381
#381
GoBigOrange86 said:
Oh, come on. You have to give some credit where it's due. Stoops is a good coach and Kentucky IS getting better. The question is whether Kentucky is better or Florida is not...and like most things, it's probably a little of both. Florida is not improving like they want (I guess we'll have a better sense of that in a month or so), but Kentucky is demonstrably better with Stoops.

And, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, for the last several years it's rare for Kentucky not to give us a game (2005 is an exception, 2008 sorta is, 2012 was close until later on). I think sitting back in thinking "We can't lose to them because they're Kentucky" is awfully shortsighted. Kentucky flirted with beating us in Neyland several times in recent memory.
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Meh, there was 2004 (37-31 Tenn) and 2006 (17-12 Tenn) but that's pretty much it...

The last three games:

2008 Tenn 28 Ky 10
2010 Tenn 24 Ky 14
2012 Tenn 37 Ky 17

...were not in doubt in the 4th quarter. At this point, Stoops is just as much in doubt as Butch Jones. I just don't buy it with Kentucky and based on games they have actually won so far - there is no reason to.
 
#382
#382
GoBigOrange86 said:
Oh, come on. You have to give some credit where it's due. Stoops is a good coach and Kentucky IS getting better. The question is whether Kentucky is better or Florida is not...and like most things, it's probably a little of both. Florida is not improving like they want (I guess we'll have a better sense of that in a month or so), but Kentucky is demonstrably better with Stoops.
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I think this is spot on, and that the future is bright at Kentucky, as it is at UT.

Kentucky's football program has a real uphill battle. For one thing, it does not have as large a pool of talent in its natural recruiting base as Florida,
Georgia, LSU, or other SEC schools. But then again neither does South Carolina. If Kentucky can hang onto Stoops long enough, and have some success like South Carolina has had with Spurrier, they've got a chance to compete for the SECe in the not too distant future.

Florida, on the other hand, I think we all know what the problems are. Right now we lack offensive firepower and the recruits we really need to fix that are a bit shy about coming to UF until such time as they show signs of life. Driskel is killing us. A run-first mindset from Muschamp is killing us. Three OCs in 3-4 years is killing us. A lack of offensive line recruiting is killing us. You get the idea.

The only reason UF is competitive is the defense. I'm telling you, Charlie Strong to UF, and in two years we will be crushing it because kids will still want to play defense there and Strong will still have his hooks in the South Florida high school ranks, which is where all the offensive skill talent is in the state.

Strong to UF and it has all the makings of an Alabama-type run under Saban. Maybe even better.
 
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#383
#383
BowlBrother85 said:
It's off topic and ultimately unimportant but worth mentioning in light of your post that the last time Tennessee and Florida played after October 1st that Tennessee won the game and it was in Florida (2001 34-32 and that was against a good Florida team). That isn't theory, it is fact....We will see what happens next month. Keep thinking that Kentucky is improved if it helps you feel better about your crappy team's performance Saturday.
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But you're trilled about the Vols performance vs Okie? Dude you lost.

Sad thing is Ky played better than any UT team since '06?

Believe what you like but Cats are improved.
 
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#384
#384
HialeahGator said:
But you're about Vols performance vs Okie.
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To defend the guarded optimism about losing a game 34-10, it WAS refreshing to see the team keep fighting through all four quarters. The Oregon game last year was over at halftime, and even if they hadn't wanted to run up the score on us, the Ducks couldn't help it because we were so slow on defense. That wasn't the story at Oklahoma. We held their offense to seven points in the second half, blocked a field goal near the end when the Sooners had it well in control, and really competed better than a 24 point blowout would seem to suggest.

It's not a moral victory, but it IS an improvement over where we were last year. That's what has Tennessee fans hopeful.
 
#385
#385
BowlBrother85 said:
Meh, there was 2004 (37-31 Tenn) and 2006 (17-12 Tenn) but that's pretty much it...

The last three games:

2008 Tenn 28 Ky 10
2010 Tenn 24 Ky 14
2012 Tenn 37 Ky 17

...were not in doubt in the 4th quarter. At this point, Stoops is just as much in doubt as Butch Jones. I just don't buy it with Kentucky and based on games they have actually won so far - there is no reason to.
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I think 2010 was still in doubt. Remember, we were a lucky fumble through the endzone away from being down 14-0 in the first quarter, and it took a field goal in the 4th to really secure a lead that could be guarded.

You don't have to look at just games Kentucky won. You have to look at the whole team. They were bad last year, no doubt about it, no 2-10 team is good, but they were CLEARLY more disciplined and giving more effort under Stoops than they had been under Phillips. They were just a bad football team. They played hard against us that year and might have made it a lot closer if they hadn't made some silly mistakes (again, the kind of mistakes you expect to see with a team that just doesn't have the talent).

Mark Stoops IS a good coach. That doesn't mean Kentucky is going to beat us this year necessarily, it just means that we can't take any team lightly. And given our performance the last seven years, why WOULD we take any team lightly anyway?
 
#386
#386
GoBigOrange86 said:
To defend the guarded optimism about losing a game 34-10, it WAS refreshing to see the team keep fighting through all four quarters. The Oregon game last year was over at halftime, and even if they hadn't wanted to run up the score on us, the Ducks couldn't help it because we were so slow on defense. That wasn't the story at Oklahoma. We held their offense to seven points in the second half, blocked a field goal near the end when the Sooners had it well in control, and really competed better than a 24 point blowout would seem to suggest.

It's not a moral victory, but it IS an improvement over where we were last year. That's what has Tennessee fans hopeful.
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Same for KY fans.
 
#387
#387
BowlBrother85 said:
Meh, there was 2004 (37-31 Tenn) and 2006 (17-12 Tenn) but that's pretty much it...

The last three games:

2008 Tenn 28 Ky 10
2010 Tenn 24 Ky 14
2012 Tenn 37 Ky 17

...were not in doubt in the 4th quarter. At this point, Stoops is just as much in doubt as Butch Jones. I just don't buy it with Kentucky and based on games they have actually won so far - there is no reason to.
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2007 and 2009 were the most interesting UT-UK games I've ever watched
 
#388
#388
lawgator1 said:
I think this is spot on, and that the future is bright at Kentucky, as it is at UT.

Kentucky's football program has a real uphill battle. For one thing, it does not have as large a pool of talent in its natural recruiting base as Florida,
Georgia, LSU, or other SEC schools. But then again neither does South Carolina. If Kentucky can hang onto Stoops long enough, and have some success like South Carolina has had with Spurrier, they've got a chance to compete for the SECe in the not too distant future.

Florida, on the other hand, I think we all know what the problems are. Right now we lack offensive firepower and the recruits we really need to fix that are a bit shy about coming to UF until such time as they show signs of life. Driskel is killing us. A run-first mindset from Muschamp is killing us. Three OCs in 3-4 years is killing us. A lack of offensive line recruiting is killing us. You get the idea.

The only reason UF is competitive is the defense. I'm telling you, Charlie Strong to UF, and in two years we will be crushing it because kids will still want to play defense there and Strong will still have his hooks in the South Florida high school ranks, which is where all the offensive skill talent is in the state.

Strong to UF and it has all the makings of an Alabama-type run under Saban. Maybe even better.[/QUOTE]

Wow...just wow. I have a hard time imagining that and would Foley hire a defensive minded coach again after Zook and Muschamp? And would Strong leave Texas for Florida anyway? They have just as much money as you do and the recruiting bases are comparable - but the path to a conference title and the playoff is much easier at Texas.
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#392
#392
BowlBrother85 said:
Wow...just wow. I have a hard time imagining that and would Foley hire a defensive minded coach again after Zook and Muschamp? And would Strong leave Texas for Florida anyway? They have just as much money as you do and the recruiting bases are comparable - but the path to a conference title and the playoff is much easier at Texas.
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The path to a national championship is much,much better at UF than at Texas. Florida is in the premier conference in the country. It sits atop an absolute gold mine of talent, and any coach that can bring in the big uglies there for offensive and defensive lines, but also capture the 4.2 speedsters out of Miami, could absolutely dominate.

UF has that potential. But we are just not landing recruits out of Miami, or south of Lake Okeechobee, i.e. Belle Glade area.

Charlie Strong has good ties to that community and those coaches. You saw what he did at Louisville with a handful of those kids out of Miami, and without the linemen that come from the northern part of the state, or neighboring states. What he could do at Florida with talent position recruits from Miami, plus the linemen from places like Live Oak or Jacksonville, is almost hard to imagine.
 
#393
#393
Stoops has been primarily making a living off his Ohio recruiting base. The argument goes along the lines of "who wants to play in the Big 10 when you can play in the premier conference in the country?"

He's also done well pulling a few Florida recruits that he had built relationships with while he was in Tallahassee.

Finally, he's done a good job keeping the best players in state and not let them escape to Louisville or elsewhere. He's done that the last few years with some key recruits (Timmons, Elam, Barker, Hatcher), and has a good line on RB Damien Harris and OL Drake Jackson for next year.

lawgator1 said:
Kentucky's football program has a real uphill battle. For one thing, it does not have as large a pool of talent in its natural recruiting base as Florida,
Georgia, LSU, or other SEC schools. But then again neither does South Carolina. If Kentucky can hang onto Stoops long enough, and have some success like South Carolina has had with Spurrier, they've got a chance to compete for the SECe in the not too distant future.
Click to expand...
 
#394
#394
Brian McCat said:
Stoops has been primarily making a living off his Ohio recruiting base. The argument goes along the lines of "who wants to play in the Big 10 when you can play in the premier conference in the country?"

He's also done well pulling a few Florida recruits that he had built relationships with while he was in Tallahassee.

Finally, he's done a good job keeping the best players in state and not let them escape to Louisville or elsewhere. He's done that the last few years with some key recruits (Timmons, Elam, Barker, Hatcher), and has a good line on RB Damien Harris and OL Drake Jackson for next year.
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Kentucky may have found another Fran Curci in Stoops:hi:
 
#395
#395
Brian McCat said:
Stoops has been primarily making a living off his Ohio recruiting base. The argument goes along the lines of "who wants to play in the Big 10 when you can play in the premier conference in the country?"

He's also done well pulling a few Florida recruits that he had built relationships with while he was in Tallahassee.

Finally, he's done a good job keeping the best players in state and not let them escape to Louisville or elsewhere. He's done that the last few years with some key recruits (Timmons, Elam, Barker, Hatcher), and has a good line on RB Damien Harris and OL Drake Jackson for next year.
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Smart pitch. The Big Ten is dying.

UK being geographically closer to much of the Big Ten recruiting base opposed to the deep south makes it a good move as well.

Hard not to be impressed with what Stoops has done. If that continues how long can UK hold on to him? Cover your ears cat fans.
 
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#396
#396
Brian McCat said:
Stoops has been primarily making a living off his Ohio recruiting base. The argument goes along the lines of "who wants to play in the Big 10 when you can play in the premier conference in the country?"

He's also done well pulling a few Florida recruits that he had built relationships with while he was in Tallahassee.

Finally, he's done a good job keeping the best players in state and not let them escape to Louisville or elsewhere. He's done that the last few years with some key recruits (Timmons, Elam, Barker, Hatcher), and has a good line on RB Damien Harris and OL Drake Jackson for next year.
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Sounds similar to SoS at SC. Just replace Ga for Ohio. Good blueprint for success.
 
#398
#398
lawgator1 said:
I think this is spot on, and that the future is bright at Kentucky, as it is at UT.

Kentucky's football program has a real uphill battle. For one thing, it does not have as large a pool of talent in its natural recruiting base as Florida,
Georgia, LSU, or other SEC schools. But then again neither does South Carolina. If Kentucky can hang onto Stoops long enough, and have some success like South Carolina has had with Spurrier, they've got a chance to compete for the SECe in the not too distant future.

Florida, on the other hand, I think we all know what the problems are. Right now we lack offensive firepower and the recruits we really need to fix that are a bit shy about coming to UF until such time as they show signs of life. Driskel is killing us. A run-first mindset from Muschamp is killing us. Three OCs in 3-4 years is killing us. A lack of offensive line recruiting is killing us. You get the idea.

The only reason UF is competitive is the defense. I'm telling you, Charlie Strong to UF, and in two years we will be crushing it because kids will still want to play defense there and Strong will still have his hooks in the South Florida high school ranks, which is where all the offensive skill talent is in the state.

Strong to UF and it has all the makings of an Alabama-type run under Saban. Maybe even better.
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He is at one of the few places where UF may not be as desirable as his current gig. The road to the final 4 (which is on Tejas radar just the same as UF) is easier through the Big 12. And he similar to UF can load up with instate kids without venturing too far from home.

UF has not had too much trouble getting D talent since WM has been there. For that matter the have taken that talent and field some very good defenses with it. Im not sure Strong comes in and enhances that side of the ball much more. The only question would be can he hire a OC and get talent on that side. He may do that better but he's prolly not the only one out there that could.
 
#400
#400
Dave1967 said:
Kentucky may have found another Fran Curci in Stoops:hi:
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As long as he isn't paying players like Curci's regime. :)

BeecherVol said:
Hard not to be impressed with what Stoops has done. If that continues how long can UK hold on to him? Cover your ears cat fans.
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Always a hard thing to do. Barnhart has been good at getting and keeping good staff members- we'll see.
 
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