Kid Learns Hard Way Committing Isn't A Two Way Street

#26
#26
Butch did nothing wrong here. It's a numbers game, nothing more.

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.
I never said CBJ did anything wrong. What I said was:

In any case, shows how foolish fans are when a kid chooses to visit other schools after committing and being damned for it. They really do have to watch out for number one. They find out that the adage of "a man's only as good as his word" can mean the man might not be any good at all in terms of keeping a promise or agreement. {Insert: This is true no matter who the coach is} So the point here is, try seeing recruitment from the recruits' point of view without being blindly biased. Although I think for many that is an absurd expectation because it's beyond their capacity.

The last sentence is proving to be prophetic given your and some others' response, which is what I expected on VN. No offense to you personally, as I'm pretty darn sure in certain circumstances I'm just as biased. Take the blinders off, this was not a potshot at CBJ, he coaches my team too. That doesn't mean a recruit should blindly trust the man's word when he's being recruited, unfortunately. The kid has to watch out for himself. Mike Farrel, mentioned in the article is smarter than most here on VN. Know why? He said, “I’m not condemning Tennessee at all. This is the way the NCAA has set up the system,” Farrell said. “Coaches are constantly re-evaluating players.”

To stress it yet again, In any case, shows how foolish fans are when a kid chooses to visit other schools after committing and being damned for it. They really do have to watch out for number one. That certainly isn't an attack on Butch Jones, not sure why you saw it that way.

There are similarities between absolute power and absolute faith: a demand for absolute obedience, a readiness to attempt the impossible, a bias for simple solutions to cut the knot rather than unravel it, the viewing of compromise as surrender. Both absolute power and absolute faith are instruments of dehumanization. Hence, absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power. ---Eric Hoffer---
 
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#27
#27
The article states that this is very common, but only 'newsworthy" when it happens at UT! :banghead2:

You will never read about Satan, Cryer, or the "Ol Ball Sack" doing this in a news article! :whistling:

The entire sport world hates UT! :the_finger:



.

Lol! The "Ol Ball Sack"? Haha!!
 
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#28
#28
The article states that this is very common, but only 'newsworthy" when it happens at UT! :banghead2:

You will never read about Satan, Cryer, or the "Ol Ball Sack" doing this in a news article! :whistling:

The entire sport world hates UT! :the_finger:



.

Correct. I willingly choose not to read any Bama, OSU, or USC news articles.
 
#29
#29
Here's a take on what kids who commit to a program really face. Of course most of us here know the Alabama way of recruiting, but Tennessee is in the core of the below story. In any case, shows how foolish fans are when a kid chooses to visit other schools after committing and being damned for it. They really do have to watch out for number one. They find out that the adage of "a man's only as good as his word" can mean the man might not be any good at all in terms of keeping a promise or agreement. So the point here is, try seeing recruitment from the recruits' point of view without being blindly biased. Although I think for many that is an absurd expectation because it's beyond their capacity.

Cleveland High School football player learns that verbal scholarship ‘offers’ aren’t always offers | CharlotteObserver.com

What a useless thread!! This story is missing both sides of what happened. It is one sided and doesn't confirm what was actually said about an offer.

It's time to stop feeling sorry for these athletes who have so much given to them and door openings that the average student doesn't get.

And truthfully a lot of these kids shouldn't be given scholarships in the first place.
 
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#30
#30
Well Butch probably got us some better players. You people get on here and bash Butch (even though he has only been here a year for not getting us back on top) well sometimes if you get better players then you have to let some go that are not as good. I am sure the people in Alabama have no problem with Saban doing this. Maybe we should of kept Dooley and he would of kept the players and we would still be under 500 record. In order for Butch to build this program back to get us on top he has to do things like this.

You could have used the contracted version of these phrases..."should'f" and "would'f"

:)
 
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#31
#31
That's the same thing I thought while reading it. Sure would be nice to know both sides of the story.

Unfortunately NCAA only allows one side of story to be told. Could be with his stock falling and he was trying to sell. CBJ wasn't buying.
 
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#32
#32
What a useless thread!! This story is missing both sides of what happened. It is one sided and doesn't confirm what was actually said about an offer.

It's time to stop feeling sorry for these athletes who have so much given to them and door openings that the average student doesn't get.

And truthfully a lot of these kids shouldn't be given scholarships in the first place.

Point 1: Nobody forced you to read the thread.

Point 2: Learn to read. It has nothing to do with feeling sorry for the kids. It has to do with attitudes of fans when a kid opts to visit other programs.

Point 3: The last two sentences given your response is quite prophetic, isn't it?
 
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#35
#35
Butch did nothing wrong here. It's a numbers game, nothing more.

Probably so. But if this were Dooley... would you have that kind of understanding? Isn't one of the major criticisms of him (and rightly so) that he burned bridges with high school coaches and recruits? You can endure some of these types of mistakes... but not alot and especially when you are winning 5 games in a season. Bama et al can get away with it because they're winning.

This kid "feels" misled. Someone did something wrong if he walked away with the impression that he had an offer when he didn't.
 
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#36
#36
There is a thread somewhere on here where a majority of the fans are in favor of dropping or not renewing schollies if a player can be over-recruited. I hope those posters don't post anything negative about this situation.

It's part of the deal on both sides. Been going on a long time.

One of the mensas on the DT Johnson thread..."take his commit...set him free when somebody better signs up"...sometimes you need to actually read what you post :no:
 
#38
#38
No big deal happens everywhere. Butch has a job to do in winning ballgames. His well being is on the line as well, he has to make the best decisions that will keep him that multi-million dollar job. Cant get caught up worrying about recruits getting butthurt. I do not feel sorry for the kid. Butch just has his eyes on recruits who he feels will make a better impact. Doesn't always work in the kids favor and because he's a "child" the grown ups are the bad guy.

*nice to know we are at a place in recruiting where we can verbally offer 4 star guys and not feel the need to have to sign them like doodey did. Go Vols! :rock:
 
#39
#39
Probably so. But if this were Dooley... would you have that kind of understanding? Isn't one of the major criticisms of him (and rightly so) that he burned bridges with high school coaches and recruits? You can endure some of these types of mistakes... but not alot and especially when you are winning 5 games in a season. Bama et al can get away with it because they're winning.

This kid "feels" misled. Someone did something wrong if he walked away with the impression that he had an offer when he didn't.

I'm wondering if he did indeed have a commitable offer and not a conditional one, if there was indeed an offer at all. Without UT commenting, we really don't know what the truth is.
 
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#40
#40
Does anyone know if his offers from ALA, UF, FSU were written or verbal? I still can't see us dropping a kid that would have offers from those other schools based on recruiting offer him.

At this point, all offers are verbal iirc. Written offers can't go out till sometime during their senior year I think. Either way, he more than likely didn't have commitable offers from any of those schools. I don't even think Clemson took his commit at first, there was some confusion there.
 
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#41
#41
My takeaway from this is all these offers the recruiting sites are showing for the 2015 class means nothing at this point. It also suggests that these sites don't differentiate between official and verbal offers even after the August date for extending official offers has passed.
 
#42
#42
It is nice for once to see UT spurn a 4 star player instead of the other way around. Hope all works out for this young man and for UT. This is part of the business of recruiting.
 
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#43
#43
I feel good that the staff feels we can be more selective on these recruits. I'm sure the Sterling kid is a fine young man but CBJ is apparently looking for difference makers.
 
#44
#44
I find it funny, that despite Clemson being a much better program over the last few years than us, that they are still considered a fallback school to us.
 
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#45
#45
Probably so. But if this were Dooley... would you have that kind of understanding? Isn't one of the major criticisms of him (and rightly so) that he burned bridges with high school coaches and recruits? You can endure some of these types of mistakes... but not alot and especially when you are winning 5 games in a season. Bama et al can get away with it because they're winning.

This kid "feels" misled. Someone did something wrong if he walked away with the impression that he had an offer when he didn't.



Like a lot of recruits this kid probably thought he was awesome when in reality he's just pretty good. Butch obviously doesn't think he's awesome after re-evaluating him and the kid is a little butt hurt over it. Really nothing more to it
 
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#46
#46
Probably so. But if this were Dooley... would you have that kind of understanding? Isn't one of the major criticisms of him (and rightly so) that he burned bridges with high school coaches and recruits? You can endure some of these types of mistakes... but not alot and especially when you are winning 5 games in a season. Bama et al can get away with it because they're winning.

This kid "feels" misled. Someone did something wrong if he walked away with the impression that he had an offer when he didn't.

Apples and oranges IMO. Dooley evidently damaged relationships with HS coaches because of other reasons......from the Chattanooga Free Press......


"You would think [the UT coaches] would make a special point to come here every year, at least to check in, but we didn't hear from them at all," said Calhoun (Ga.) coach Hal Lamb, whose program has had at least one player sign with an FBS program each of the last four years. "The two staffs before, even if we didn't have a kid at the time, they took time to build the relationship for the future for when you did have a kid that they would want.

"We got a call from a grad assistant, but I didn't know who on their actual staff recruited our area because I didn't hear from them. That's amazing to me."

Each of those coaches admitted, however, that they would not hold a grudge against the program and would welcome the new head coach and staff to begin building a better relationship.

The current class that Dooley has put together ranks outside the top 10 in the league by every major recruiting service. While there is only a handful of FBS-level talent in the Chattanooga area this season, the biggest complaint is the lack of communication that was built for the future, when a program does have an SEC-caliber player.

"If Derek Dooley had stayed as their coach, I would've had a hard time advising any player to go there," current Hixson and former Rhea County coach Jason Fitzgerald said this past week. "That staff didn't follow up or return calls, and really I had no idea who even recruits our area for UT because I've never had one of their coaches come through my door.

"I can tell you who recruits our school for Alabama, Georgia, Ole Miss, Missouri and even Tennessee Tech, because I have personally seen them here and get phone calls and emails from those schools and others," added Fitzgerald, who played in the SEC at Auburn. "The only thing I ever heard from UT since Dooley was there was to advertise their camp and tell me how much it would cost."

The lack-of-communication complaint was echoed by all 37 coaches who responded to the poll, and each said the staffs under former coaches Phillip Fulmer and Lane Kiffin seemed to care more about building a working relationship.

"To be honest, a lot of high school coaches in the state felt like Derek came across as arrogant," Fitzgerald added. "We talked about that at coaches' meetings around the state for several years, actually. It wasn't just in the Chattanooga area; it was coaches all over the state. Derek is highly intelligent, but it just came off as him proving how smart he is when he talks. He just has no people skills."

Fitzgerald admitted he began to sour on Dooley when he felt two former Rhea County players were mistreated during their brief UT careers. Josh Davis was an all-state punter who walked on and competed for the job under Kiffin. But shortly after Kiffin left, just before the start of spring practice, Dooley informed Davis he would not be needed even to compete for the job, feeling that prep All-Americans Matt Darr and Michael Palardy would provide enough depth at punter.

Davis transferred to Middle Tennessee State, and while Darr and Palardy have struggled the last two seasons, Davis has become an All-Sun Belt Conference punter and last week finished with a 48-yard average. Also, former offensive lineman Kevin Revis, who grew up dreaming of playing for the Vols, committed to Fulmer and played one year under Kiffin. But he was advised to transfer by Dooley and wound up starting every game this fall for UT-Chattanooga.

"Davis was a kid who knew he wouldn't get a scholarship as a punter but just wanted to compete," Fitzgerald said. "And Revis was a kid who bled orange. Even if he wasn't a starter, he was going to bust his butt to help that program any way he could because he loved it. My problem with those two situations was just how the kids were treated. It was disrespectful."

Ridgeland All-America safety Vonn Bell, the highest-rated prospect in the area, also felt disrespected as his recruiting process heated up. A four-star prospect this season, Bell already had several offers from FBS programs, including Georgia and Alabama, before Tennessee contacted him with an offer.

Bell also grew up a Vols fan, and while he still has UT on his list of finalists along with Alabama and Ohio State, he has yet to commit because of the lack of communication with UT's staff and the uncertainty that surrounded Dooley.

It is believed that Alabama and Ohio State, whose staffs have made Bell feel like a priority, moved ahead of the Vols as the recruiting process continued. Earlier this season, against Dalton, Alabama coaches were at the game to congratulate Bell, who had five catches for 271 yards and four touchdowns. Tennessee did not have a game that week but did not send a recruiter to the game.

"They were terrible," said one northwest Georgia coach who has six players currently on rosters at FBS programs but asked to remain anonymous. "All I can do is compare them with everybody else that recruits our kids, and they were not consistent. We have one kid they are recruiting now, and to be honest, if they had been courting him the way some of the other schools have, he would have already committed there. But they were not doing a very good job and keep slipping further down his list. I think they're going to lose him."

As of now, four of the state's top 25 prospects, as ranked by Rivals.com, have committed to Tennessee, while 14, including the top two, have committed to other programs. Memphis has by far the most talent on that list, with 16 of the top 25 in-state players, but UT has a commitment from just one of those.

The state's top prospect and only five-star recruit, Brentwood Academy receiver Jalen Ramsey, committed to Kiffin at Southern Cal.

Another area coach, whose program has produced multiple FBS and FCS signees over the past five years agreed, saying, "I have Vanderbilt come here quite a bit, and they've let it be known this is one of their areas to make a priority. Dooley didn't look at the Chattanooga area as a place they needed to own. We got the last courtesy call and actually had a graduate assistant instead of a position coach when they did call, so you certainly don't feel like a priority."

The Chattanooga area had at least one player sign with UT each year from 2002 to '10, including two years in which three area players signed with the Vols. That streak ended in 2011 under Dooley and UT hasn't signed an area player either of the last two seasons, despite having 12 players sign with FBS programs, including five to SEC schools.

The Vols do have a commitment from Bradley Central senior lineman Austin Sanders for the 2013 recruiting class. Sanders is rated the state's No. 6 overall prospect according to Rivals.com and is one of two area players ranked on that list. The other, Signal Mountain quarterback Reese Phillips, has committed to Kentucky.

Similar to Bell, Phillips grew up a UT fan and has been recruited by Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Mississippi State and Vanderbilt in addition to Kentucky. Tennessee did not recruit him.

"I never heard anything from Tennessee," Phillips said. "To be honest, it was very disappointing. That's my home-state school, so I had dreamed of going there. For them to never even send a representative or call to talk, it rubbed me the wrong way."

It didn't sit well with Eagles coach Bill Price, either.

"I didn't like that staff, to be honest," Price said. "I grew up in this state and I would go to the games about every week and wanted to support them. I'm a Tennessee fan, but we never heard anything from them. Not even a visit just to introduce who was recruiting our area or a call or anything. It was like they didn't care whether they had any relationship with us at all, so how would we ever feel good about sending a kid there once we had one they wanted?

"I've been coaching a long time and dealt with a lot of coaches at every level, and those guys were the worst as far as feeling like they wanted to work with you or have any relationship at all with the high school coaches."
 
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#47
#47
This is a Charlotte newspaper trying to help Clemson recruiting efforts. The Clemson staff can't do it, but the media is not governed by the same rules. Good luck to this young man but second choices sometimes work out.

GO VOLS!!!!!!
 
#48
#48
Here's a take on what kids who commit to a program really face. Of course most of us here know the Alabama way of recruiting, but Tennessee is in the core of the below story. In any case, shows how foolish fans are when a kid chooses to visit other schools after committing and being damned for it. They really do have to watch out for number one. They find out that the adage of "a man's only as good as his word" can mean the man might not be any good at all in terms of keeping a promise or agreement. So the point here is, try seeing recruitment from the recruits' point of view without being blindly biased. Although I think for many that is an absurd expectation because it's beyond their capacity.

Cleveland High School football player learns that verbal scholarship ‘offers’ aren’t always offers | CharlotteObserver.com

It's part of the game. Happened to me, happened to j lewy happened to j Henderson. It happens to all recruits. This is nothing new. Verbal is not signed...butch said attend the camp and we will re evaluate and decide then. This kid wasn't truly committed to tennessee. If he was, he would have gone to camp as coach insisted. That's how u weed out those who have it in their heart and those who dont
 
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#49
#49
Don't understand this thread at all, the kid said he understood and that he knows this happens. He just decided in the end on Clemson. He never bashed Butch or UT at all. Kid seems more mature than some on here.
 
#50
#50
This is a Charlotte newspaper trying to help Clemson recruiting efforts. The Clemson staff can't do it, but the media is not governed by the same rules. Good luck to this young man but second choices sometimes work out.

GO VOLS!!!!!!

Do u want someone who is gonna fight for your school? Or someone who is just gonna give up? Case closed here..
 
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