Kyle Rittenhouse - The Truth in 11 Minutes

[SpaceCoastVol]

I highly doubt it. My guess is he just did it for political reasons, to look like he did something after the LV shooting.

Wasn't that the same point whodey just made?

 

[hog88]

Wasn't that the same point whodey just made?

Yes, but Trump was also running for reelection. This time around he won’t have that on his mind so I don’t believe he would make any anti 2A moves.

 

[LouderVol]

My God man - You’re just constructing strawmen at this point.

I already said - “I don’t trust Trump”. Get that thru your pissy little head.

‘94 happened. Kamala/Walz would happily push for it again.

what straw man? You asked which of the two, and I answered and gave reasons and facts to back it up.

your only argument is hypocritical imo, you don't like Trump's 2A stance, but prefer his actual unconstitutional actions over the words from the Dems who do nothing. what did Kamala get done under Biden? What big ban did the Dems push thru congress? What act from the Dems from 2020-2024 is going to get struck down in the supreme court?

Kamala gets something akin to the bump stock ban done, and I would THEN say she is the worst. but you are building up hypotheticals and ignoring the actual history between the two.

 

[85SugarVol]

No, I don’t think Trump will do anything contrary to the 2A. Could he if he see’s a political need? Yes but outside of that no I don’t think he will.

Louder’s apparently convinced Trump is just itching to torpedo 2A rights if he gets back in there.

But to what end?

Trump wooing gun-grabber Democrats for the next election?

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Yes, but Trump was also running for reelection. This time around he won’t have that on his mind so I don’t believe he would make any anti 2A moves.

I don't think so either.

 

[85SugarVol]

what straw man? You asked which of the two, and I answered and gave reasons and facts to back it up.

your only argument is hypocritical imo, you don't like Trump's 2A stance, but prefer his actual unconstitutional actions over the words from the Dems who do nothing. what did Kamala get done under Biden? What big ban did the Dems push thru congress? What act from the Dems from 2020-2024 is going to get struck down in the supreme court?

Kamala gets something akin to the bump stock ban done, and I would THEN say she is the worst. but you are building up hypotheticals and ignoring the actual history between the two.

you feel free to continue to argue against mean tweets and sound bites, I pay attention to what actually happens. And that shows Trump is an actual threat.

I never said Trump wasn’t a threat.
I said I didn’t trust him.
I said he was terrible on 2A.

What I did say was that I would trust him more than Kamala in 2025.

 

[hndog609]

Its their political football. just like the border is for Rs. They aren't going to get anything done, because the other party won't let them, and it ruins a talking point for the next election.

do you really think a narcist like Trump isn't going to go after the 2A after a private civilian nearly killed him with a commercially available gun? He is not going to run on the issue, because he learned he needs more than his base 35% to win. But its not going to be far from his mind.

To your first point I'd posited Trump definitely helped with the D's not "getting anything done". His election in 2016 was worth at least that much.

To the second part, maybe? I'm pretty doubtful though. If anything his narcissism is leaning towards the fist pumping "Fight" persona. THAT guy (real or not) is not going to poon out about firearms without there being a huge backlash. Huge backlashes are anathema to narcissists.

There are no guarantees in dealing with people in power. The only thing I can say is I've no real articulable reason to think Trump/Vance would be hostile to the 2A and every reason to believe Harris/Walz would be.

 

[C-south]

Wonder when the SC will squash the ATF’s pistol brace rule and if it will affect the NFA in any way?

 

[hndog609]

Wonder when the SC will squash the ATF’s pistol brace rule and if it will affect the NFA in any way?

I think that would depend on how tight the ruling would be. If it's simply a matter of should pistol braces be considered NFA items or not then one wouldn't think that would make much difference to the whole. If it comes down to a greater discussion of what the NFA itself means in a broader context it could become much more interesting.

 

[InVOLuntary]

What did Trump advance other than the bump stock ban? I'm not arguing that that was insignificant, but was that it?

 

[LouderVol]

Sure. What you got?

change the text below the loser's avatar for a month.

if Trump doesn't do anything of consequence anti-2A by the end of his term, I will change mine to be something pro-Trump of your choosing within board guidelines.

If Trump does do something of consequence anti-2A by the end of his term, you will change your text to something anti-Trump of my choosing within board guidelines.

and by of consequence I mean something that impacts US citizens. Could be backing some Dem bill in Congress, could be another EO, expanding the powers of the ATF. things like that. him saying something anti-2A isn't enough.

 

[LouderVol]

To your first point I'd posited Trump definitely helped with the D's not "getting anything done". His election in 2016 was worth at least that much.

To the second part, maybe? I'm pretty doubtful though. If anything his narcissism is leaning towards the fist pumping "Fight" persona. THAT guy (real or not) is not going to poon out about firearms without there being a huge backlash. Huge backlashes are anathema to narcissists.

There are no guarantees in dealing with people in power. The only thing I can say is I've no real articulable reason to think Trump/Vance would be hostile to the 2A and every reason to believe Harris/Walz would be.

what huge backlash was there on the bump stocks?

you guys act like you are going to turn on Trump, despite his history that would have required you to already turn on him.

he is an egomaniac who wants to leave his name on something. The Trump Border Wall, Trump killing Obamacare, Trump walking into NK, Trump defeats Covid and creates super vaccine. Trump wanted to be the one who opened the country back up.

the Trump Gun "Ban" could be the next. The Rs would let that happen, because Trump. The Ds would let that happen because guns.

 

[InVOLuntary]

what huge backlash was there on the bump stocks?

you guys act like you are going to turn on Trump, despite his history that would have required you to already turn on him.

he is an egomaniac who wants to leave his name on something. The Trump Border Wall, Trump killing Obamacare, Trump walking into NK, Trump defeats Covid and creates super vaccine. Trump wanted to be the one who opened the country back up.

the Trump Gun "Ban" could be the next. The Rs would let that happen, because Trump. The Ds would let that happen because guns.

You could be right but I'm not buying it. I don't think he touches guns. I think he learned his lesson with the bump stock ban. I don't think he cares about favor with any democrats.

 

[hog88]

what huge backlash was there on the bump stocks?

you guys act like you are going to turn on Trump, despite his history that would have required you to already turn on him.

he is an egomaniac who wants to leave his name on something. The Trump Border Wall, Trump killing Obamacare, Trump walking into NK, Trump defeats Covid and creates super vaccine. Trump wanted to be the one who opened the country back up.

the Trump Gun "Ban" could be the next. The Rs would let that happen, because Trump. The Ds would let that happen because guns.

Except his appointments to the federal courts counter your diatribe.

 

[hndog609]

what huge backlash was there on the bump stocks?

you guys act like you are going to turn on Trump, despite his history that would have required you to already turn on him.

he is an egomaniac who wants to leave his name on something. The Trump Border Wall, Trump killing Obamacare, Trump walking into NK, Trump defeats Covid and creates super vaccine. Trump wanted to be the one who opened the country back up.

the Trump Gun "Ban" could be the next. The Rs would let that happen, because Trump. The Ds would let that happen because guns.

How many people owned or cared about bump stocks even in the firearm community? As also mentioned the issue over those stocks isn't even a particularly 2A (as a matter of gun rights) inclusive issue, at least under the NFA guidelines. As also also mentioned the property rights part was, in the grand scheme of things, much more egregious. If you want to go off on how apathetic the population is regarding property rights as long as it's not "their" property you've got a lot to work with. There should have been outrage the first time any government official even posited the idea of "civil forfeiture".

He's absolutely a narcissist. Having his name on something that would vilify him to the majority of his base and, at best, get some faux compliments from people that still utterly hate his guts on the Left seems an odd move for someone motivated by adoration.

I'll say again I've got little interest in trying to make bold predictions about what any politician will do so there's no way I'm going to say what you posit is impossible. I will say given what I do know I think Trump/Vance taking any real anti take on the 2A unlikely.

 

[hndog609]

Except his appointments to the federal courts counter your diatribe.

I touched on that earlier. Anyone even remotely pro 2A could approve of his first term based merely on the judiciary actions.

 

[85SugarVol]

How many people owned or cared about bump stocks even in the firearm community? As also mentioned the issue over those stocks isn't even a particularly 2A (as a matter of gun rights) inclusive issue, at least under the NFA guidelines. As also also mentioned the property rights part was, in the grand scheme of things, much more egregious. If you want to go off on how apathetic the population is regarding property rights as long as it's not "their" property you've got a lot to work with. There should have been outrage the first time any government official even posited the idea of "civil forfeiture".

He's absolutely a narcissist. Having his name on something that would vilify him to the majority of his base and, at best, get some faux compliments from people that still utterly hate his guts on the Left seems an odd move for someone motivated by adoration.

I'll say again I've got little interest in trying to make bold predictions about what any politician will do so there's no way I'm going to say what you posit is impossible. I will say given what I do know I think Trump/Vance taking any real anti take on the 2A unlikely.

This entire hypothetical about what he could do, should he get back in, in cahoots with Rs, over Guns of all things - is just bizarre.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

change the text below the loser's avatar for a month.

if Trump doesn't do anything of consequence anti-2A by the end of his term, I will change mine to be something pro-Trump of your choosing within board guidelines.

If Trump does do something of consequence anti-2A by the end of his term, you will change your text to something anti-Trump of my choosing within board guidelines.

and by of consequence I mean something that impacts US citizens. Could be backing some Dem bill in Congress, could be another EO, expanding the powers of the ATF. things like that. him saying something anti-2A isn't enough.

Ok but there has to be a time limit. He has to do something anti 2A by the end of his term and wear the new text for a year thereafter? I don;t know how we will remember this, but sure....

 

[LouderVol]

Except his appointments to the federal courts counter your diatribe.

seems like if he had some long term, thought out strategy he was dedicated to he wouldn't have pushed bump stock ban knowing he had judges in place if he was really pro-2A, or even neutral.

He's Trump. he thinks he can do whatever he wants and just get away with it because he is president. Just like when he was trying to get rid of Obamacare, and the judges rejected him because he (his staff) didn't do the proper paperwork. He is too used to being the name of the company where he can just speak things into reality. plenty of hypocrisy from the man while in office. how did all that removing the deficit and debt go?

and the judges have countered him on several things. not just guns, so I wouldn't take it as some 4D chess 2A support move to appoint the judges he did.

he is a life long New York Democrat. you guys act like he spent his summers growing up in the backwoods hunting, and has a real appreciation for guns, just because he ran with the Rs.

 

[LouderVol]

This entire hypothetical about what he could do, should he get back in, in cahoots with Rs, over Guns of all things - is just bizarre.

that is the exact same argument you have against Kamala. what she COULD do.

its the same thing with Trump, what he COULD do. but he has a history which can't be ignored.

its not like he passed some bill that clarified a clerical ATF item, he enacted an unconstitutional ban. that's as bad as it gets.

I am not sure why you guys act like it being more than a 2A issue somehow takes away from it being a 2A issue.

 

[LouderVol]

How many people owned or cared about bump stocks even in the firearm community? As also mentioned the issue over those stocks isn't even a particularly 2A (as a matter of gun rights) inclusive issue, at least under the NFA guidelines. As also also mentioned the property rights part was, in the grand scheme of things, much more egregious. If you want to go off on how apathetic the population is regarding property rights as long as it's not "their" property you've got a lot to work with. There should have been outrage the first time any government official even posited the idea of "civil forfeiture".

He's absolutely a narcissist. Having his name on something that would vilify him to the majority of his base and, at best, get some faux compliments from people that still utterly hate his guts on the Left seems an odd move for someone motivated by adoration.

I'll say again I've got little interest in trying to make bold predictions about what any politician will do so there's no way I'm going to say what you posit is impossible. I will say given what I do know I think Trump/Vance taking any real anti take on the 2A unlikely.

there were more than half a million bump stocks in circulation at the time of the ban. that's not no one. you seem to be the one who is apathetic because it didn't impact your guns. if anything the property rights should make you even more upset, instead of dismissing the 2A issue because there were other matters going on to.

again his base is not going to vilify him. just like they didn't with the bump stocks. just like they didn't when he didn't get mexico to pay for the wall. or when he didn't lock Hilary up, or even pursue charges. or when he didn't decrease the debt, or the size of the federal government. or drain the swamp, or pretty much any of his promises he didn't fulfill. everyone just gets amnesia and acts like it never happened with Trump. Trump knows he has his base under his thumb. he even said he could get away with murder and his base wouldn't care.

 

[LouderVol]

Ok but there has to be a time limit. He has to do something anti 2A by the end of his term and wear the new text for a year thereafter? I don;t know how we will remember this, but sure....

I can agree with that.

I also have no idea how to track it for so long.

 

[hndog609]

there were more than half a million bump stocks in circulation at the time of the ban. that's not no one. you seem to be the one who is apathetic because it didn't impact your guns. if anything the property rights should make you even more upset, instead of dismissing the 2A issue because there were other matters going on to.

again his base is not going to vilify him. just like they didn't with the bump stocks. just like they didn't when he didn't get mexico to pay for the wall. or when he didn't lock Hilary up, or even pursue charges. or when he didn't decrease the debt, or the size of the federal government. or drain the swamp, or pretty much any of his promises he didn't fulfill. everyone just gets amnesia and acts like it never happened with Trump. Trump knows he has his base under his thumb. he even said he could get away with murder and his base wouldn't care.

You're using too much club on your approach. That bump stocks existed was never presented as part of the equation. You specifically asked "why" and I answered with the gun community at large, particularly as it regards the 2A and gun rights, barely moved the needle. How many people, and I'm talking gun people, would get their ire all fired up over the banning of trigger cranks? Depending on how it went down the property issue could still be there but again...you just aren't going to move the needle with that one even among the at large gun community.

Some did get pretty pizzed about the bump stock thing but see above. It's no small conflation to try and run what the reaction would be to something that can only be described as tangentially a 2A issue vs some as yet undescribed (but would have to be definitionally overt to be germane to the conversation) hit on the 2A. Obviously your opinion is your own so fair enough and all that but you seem to be awfully assumptive. Much more so than I can bring myself to be.

 

[85SugarVol]

that is the exact same argument you have against Kamala. what she COULD do.

its the same thing with Trump, what he COULD do. but he has a history which can't be ignored.

its not like he passed some bill that clarified a clerical ATF item, he enacted an unconstitutional ban. that's as bad as it gets.

I am not sure why you guys act like it being more than a 2A issue somehow takes away from it being a 2A issue.

Well, there’s the whole issue of what they have actually, you know, SAID they would do too.

Kamala/Walz have said plenty about what they would do. I believe them.

Has la Don Don floated any gun restriction proposals for his 2nd term?

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I can agree with that.

I also have no idea how to track it for so long.

Let's just call it now. You can put 'Trump's my daddy' under your picture.