Lack of Playmakers.

[ACvol3]

Great head coaches have a lot of coaches that work under them and most of those coaches don't become great head coaches.

A lot of kids have played football at Miss Valley St and never played a down of football afterwards...but then there was Jerrry Rice..
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[Volnidas]

A lot of kids have played football at Miss Valley St and never played a down of football afterwards...but then there was Jerrry Rice..
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Jerry Rice like talent coming from a school like Miss Valley St is out of the ordinary, a extremely rare occurrence. So are you saying the chances of Dooley being a great coach are as low as the chances of a Jerry Rice like talent coming out of Miss Valley St?

 

[orange parmejohn]

many said, back in the summer, that this wouldnt be a very flashy class, due to the fact that we are mostly filling the trenches. we need big uglies, not big pretties. smith is gonna be a playmaker. we also have some good young talent already on the team. i wish we would have taken another qb.

 

[ManningBerry#1]

many said, back in the summer, that this wouldnt be a very flashy class, due to the fact that we are mostly filling the trenches. we need big uglies, not big pretties. smith is gonna be a playmaker. we also have some good young talent already on the team. i wish we would have taken another qb.

Speaking of that, when are we gonna see bray again do you think? We saw him briefly in the UT martin game and wow did he look like a speaker stand!!! He was super tall, skinny and had the look of a dear in the headlights. I hope that his nfl build leads us to good nfl results and not another disappointment.

:salute:

 

[OrangeSummit]

Devrin Young is NOT an SEC caliber player I hate to break it to you. I know we are "Vol" fans and it is hard to accept, but there is a reason he has zero college offers. I do not even think the Stanford offer is legit anymore. Not to say that DY is not a good HIGH SCHOOL player, but I think some on this site forget how huge the jump is from high school (Esp. Tennessee High school) to college (SEC by the way). It is a really huge jump, in all aspects of the game. Devrin Young is 158 pounds. He literally looks like a child in your avatar and he does not have the frame to add much weight. I really do not think he will amount to much. He is more of a Sunbelt Conference type of athlete. So please do not put him in the "playmaker" category because wishful thinking does not count and only gets you "moral victories" in the long run, which UT has had plenty of in the past few years. I am talking about legit playmakers. Hopefully Dallas and Arnett sign with UT.

how big is darren sproles? thats the problem, people say there's not enough talent in tn to field a good team. funny thing is look at the tn players on every one else's rooster. this kid bleeds orange and should play with a chip on his shoulder making up for his size. speed kills and makes up for the lack of size.

 

[ihateflorida]

If special teams are truly "just as important" as offense and defense, like I believe they are, we have to recruit specialty players and I think DY fits the mold perfectly.

 

[therickbol]

Devrin Young is NOT an SEC caliber player I hate to break it to you. I know we are "Vol" fans and it is hard to accept, but there is a reason he has zero college offers. I do not even think the Stanford offer is legit anymore. Not to say that DY is not a good HIGH SCHOOL player, but I think some on this site forget how huge the jump is from high school (Esp. Tennessee High school) to college (SEC by the way). It is a really huge jump, in all aspects of the game. Devrin Young is 158 pounds. He literally looks like a child in your avatar and he does not have the frame to add much weight. I really do not think he will amount to much. He is more of a Sunbelt Conference type of athlete. So please do not put him in the "playmaker" category because wishful thinking does not count and only gets you "moral victories" in the long run, which UT has had plenty of in the past few years. I am talking about legit playmakers. Hopefully Dallas and Arnett sign with UT.

Make sure you get that application into the football office before the deadline. We need some talented evaluation experts like yourself on the staff. Terry Joseph better watch out or they will give his job to you.

 

[Biopsyman]

I read this whole thread and I feel that we are accepting that this year we have no business tyring to get try for elite talent, When did all 4 and 5 star players become risky, thugs, and will be busts. I hear words or pharses that make me me disappointed. "Hidden Gem", "Good upside", "Local kid", "under the radar". Stars do matter overall and I realize that there will be some bust, but the odds are a team full of 4 and 5 stars will consistently beat a team of 3 stars and in our case a few NR.

I hope that I am dead wrong and that this class will allow the staff to go after elite talent at every position moving forward. GBO

 

[Doolittle 1720]

I read this whole thread and I feel that we are accepting that this year we have no business tyring to get try for elite talent, When did all 4 and 5 star players become risky, thugs, and will be busts. I hear words or pharses that make me me disappointed. "Hidden Gem", "Good upside", "Local kid", "under the radar". Stars do matter overall and I realize that there will be some bust, but the odds are a team full of 4 and 5 stars will consistently beat a team of 3 stars and in our case a few NR.

I hope that I am dead wrong and that this class will allow the staff to go after elite talent at every position moving forward. GBO

You are not dead wrong, you are dead right.

 

[MDBJJC]

DD was Saban's head recruiter.

Clearly he has no idea what he is doing

 

[Forty]

Thats why I'd hate to be TCU or Boise State and even UTAH. they never had playmakers and they get drilled night in and night out

 

[Forty]

how big is darren sproles? thats the problem, people say there's not enough talent in tn to field a good team. funny thing is look at the tn players on every one else's rooster. this kid bleeds orange and should play with a chip on his shoulder making up for his size. speed kills and makes up for the lack of size.

he was a beast at K STATE too

 

[Volnidas]

DD was Saban's head recruiter.

Clearly he has no idea what he is doing

A donkey could be Saban's head recruiter and he would still land top 5 classes. Dooley was the best recruiting coordinator at LSU doesn't necessarily mean he was the best recruiter on the staff.

 

[Volnidas]

Thats why I'd hate to be TCU or Boise State and even UTAH. they never had playmakers and they get drilled night in and night out

They would get drilled night in and night out if they had to play UF, Bama, UGA, USCjr, LSU, Ole Miss and UK in a single season.

 

[winchestervol63]

Great head coaches have a lot of coaches that work under them and most of those coaches don't become great head coaches.

Saban knows much, much more about coaching football than you or I do, I think you'd have to agree. Saban knows much, much more about Dooley than you or I do, I think you'd have to agree. You think Saban is a great recruiter and has a good eye for talent. He's recruited Dooley to a couple of teams, one college and one NFL. Saban thinks Dooley will be a successful head coach and has said so publicly.

I personally, don't know whether Dooley will be successful or not. I'll have to wait and see, because I don't know enough about coaching D1 football and about Dooley to project his success or lack thereof with confidence. But I think Saban's thoughts carry some weight. And I see Dooley making decisions that are logical. So, I'm encouraged and believe that he has a chance to do well.

You are pretty confident that Dooley is going to fail. Care to justify your position by explaining how you know more than Saban regarding coaching talent and/or know more about Dooley than he does? One or the other has to be true for your position to be logically defensible.

If you can't do that, it is clear that you are just guessing and making emotional decisions. I haven't seen Dooley make emotionally driven decisions like that, but would agree with you that he is likely to fail if he were to start thinking and acting that way. Some coaches do, but the better ones do not.

 

[Volnidas]

Saban knows much, much more about coaching football than you or I do, I think you'd have to agree. Saban knows much, much more about Dooley than you or I do, I think you'd have to agree. You think Saban is a great recruiter and has a good eye for talent. He's recruited Dooley to a couple of teams, one college and one NFL. Saban thinks Dooley will be a successful head coach and has said so publicly.

I personally, don't know whether Dooley will be successful or not. I'll have to wait and see, because I don't know enough about coaching D1 football and about Dooley to project his success or lack thereof with confidence. But I think Saban's thoughts carry some weight. And I see Dooley making decisions that are logical. So, I'm encouraged and believe that he has a chance to do well.

You are pretty confident that Dooley is going to fail. Care to justify your position by explaining how you know more than Saban regarding coaching talent and/or know more about Dooley than he does? One or the other has to be true for your position to be logically defensible.

If you can't do that, it is clear that you are just guessing and making emotional decisions. I haven't seen Dooley make emotionally driven decisions like that, but would agree with you that he is likely to fail if he were to start thinking and acting that way. Some coaches do, but the better ones do not.

The reason I seem confident that Dooley won't be a great head coach is because most of the time when a completely unproven coach like Dooley is hired at a big time program like UT it doesn't end well. Yes Saban knows a miilion times more football than me. Saban willing to keep Dooley on his staff for so long shows that he thought Dooley was a great coach to have on his staff, but this doesn't mean that he thinks Dooley will be a great head coach. And yes Saban has said publicly that Dooley will be a good head coach, but that's what he's suppose to say. No coach would say that Dooley is a great coach to have on staff but not cut out to be a great head coach.

 

[lilesrt]

I read this whole thread and I feel that we are accepting that this year we have no business tyring to get try for elite talent, When did all 4 and 5 star players become risky, thugs, and will be busts. I hear words or pharses that make me me disappointed. "Hidden Gem", "Good upside", "Local kid", "under the radar". Stars do matter overall and I realize that there will be some bust, but the odds are a team full of 4 and 5 stars will consistently beat a team of 3 stars and in our case a few NR.

I hope that I am dead wrong and that this class will allow the staff to go after elite talent at every position moving forward. GBO

I see things the way you see them. Why is it that Derek Dooley's first "Foundational" recruiting class has to be made up of 3 star talent? Why can't it be built on 4 star talent?

 

[DaddyChad]

I see things the way you see them. Why is it that Derek Dooley's first "Foundational" recruiting class has to be made up of 3 star talent? Why can't it be built on 4 star talent?

You can only land the kids who are interested in playing for a program. We've had a lot of turmoil surrounding the program lately, I can't lay that on Dooley and we can't expect it not to have an effect on recruiting. We have some kids who should be higher rated also Randolph and Smith not being rated higher is absolutely laughable. Do we want to honestly recruit by Rivals and Scouts ratings or by our coaches evaluations?

 

[Volnidas]

You can only land the kids who are interested in playing for a program. We've had a lot of turmoil surrounding the program lately, I can't lay that on Dooley and we can't expect it not to have an effect on recruiting. We have some kids who should be higher rated also Randolph and Smith not being rated higher is absolutely laughable. Do we want to honestly recruit by Rivals and Scouts ratings or by our coaches evaluations?

How come a lot of our commits were evaluated by our staff as good enough for UT, but Saban, Meyer, Richt, Miles and Chizik didn't think they were good enough for their programs?

 

[RichRollin]

I see things the way you see them. Why is it that Derek Dooley's first "Foundational" recruiting class has to be made up of 3 star talent? Why can't it be built on 4 star talent?

Off topic, but are you an RN or RT?

 

[lilesrt]

Off topic, but are you an RN or RT?

I am an RN but my name is R.T.. Thats what I go by anyways.

 

[lilesrt]

Last name is Liles.

 

[RichRollin]

Last name is Liles.

Cool, not being nosie. I'm an RT at UT Med Center. I have some friends who are RTs and RNs from down in La. Cool.

On topic. I'm glad to see someone shares my thoughts. I've been BASHED over my concerns with this recruiting class. I keep hearing this "trust the coaches deal". However, I've watch D. Young for 4 yrs and I support the offer. But suddenly the "trust the coach" theory has went out the window with him. I understand that though. But for the most part, we need to close REALLY strong. We have a good foundation with this class, but we need a few more big dogs, IMO.

 

[RichRollin]

Last name is Liles.

We are pretty straight on O-line for this class, IMO. Especially once we get Clear and Richardson. We need 1)D-line and 2) SPEEEEEED!!!

That's why I'm cool with the D.Young offer. Everyone thinks it's because I'm a homer. I'm from Cleveland Ohio, and my last 2 yrs of HS were in an East Tenn HS who rivals most of the East Tenn powers. I can't stand Bearden, but I think Young's shiftyness could benefit us on STs. All these 4-5* guys yr in and yr out haven't made one damn dent in our STs dept. I think he has a knack for finding a crease and hitting it. We need D-line and speed, HANDS DOWN.

 

[winchestervol63]

The reason I seem confident that Dooley won't be a great head coach is because most of the time when a completely unproven coach like Dooley is hired at a big time program like UT it doesn't end well. Yes Saban knows a miilion times more football than me. Saban willing to keep Dooley on his staff for so long shows that he thought Dooley was a great coach to have on his staff, but this doesn't mean that he thinks Dooley will be a great head coach. And yes Saban has said publicly that Dooley will be a good head coach, but that's what he's suppose to say. No coach would say that Dooley is a great coach to have on staff but not cut out to be a great head coach.

Okay, so the entire substance of your argument is that not many new/young head coaches become great head coaches, so any particular one is question isn't likely to become a great head coach.

So all you're doing is playing the odds, without any consideration to what qualities you personally think help a guy to become a great coach and whether or not you see those in Dooley.

You would obviously have bet against Saban, too, back when he was at Kent State. Against Urban Meyer as well, at Utah. And against CPF at UT (let's don't start that argument up. Great coach or not, it cannot be argued that he didn't have great success for a significant period of time at UT). You could certainly end up being right, but all you're doing is stating that not many coaches become great coaches. That's trivial - everyone knows that. If they did, 'great' would have no meaning anyway.

I think that smart guys make great coaches. Most coaches are reasonably smart, but many are not exceptional in that regard. I happen to know that anyone who was accepted and graduated from UGA Law School is exceptionally bright - it is a very well respected law school and difficult to get into as public University Law Schools go. I think a guy who is good with logic can be a great coach and at it's core, that's what law school and practicing law is about. Think a guy has to know a thing or two about recruiting and think Dooley does - that's partly based on Saban's opinion and partly based on job history. Think he has to be personable in this day and age, so that he is reasonably well accepted/presented by the media. I don't necessarily like that, but know that it can matter in public perception/recruiting. I think that a guy who has been around football his entire life has a better chance of being successful than a guy who hasn't. I think a guy who doesn't waste time on things he can't control and that do not directly affect his team can be good. Think a guy has to put in at least 3-4 years to build a great program and that he has to be a good cultural fit with the University to have longevity and to appeal to many of the players that he needs to sign.

I think Dooley has a chance to be good based on the qualities that I think are important. I certainly don't know that he will, but am anxious to see. If we aren't pretty strong by 2012 or 2013, then I will likely have a different opinion of him. Until then, I'll be watching and refining my opinion.