Lady Vols Conflict

#51
#51
I don't think anyone who really follows the team closely is surprised by this report. My only question now is how many players leave after the season? Good thing Holly has that aforementioned awesome recruiting class lined up to step in....
I legitimately believe there could be some. I'm not excusing the play of some of the players, but when have you known a Tennessee team to be so selfish with the ball. They're averaging less than ten assists per game this season. Even the teams with Simmons on them were avg almost over twenty assists a game. She shot a lot, but in my opinion she was a team player. But for those fans that believe it's just playing chemistry, seem to have forgot over half the girls grew up playing with one another either on aau circuit, pickup games, and USA. So it's not like their all unfamiliar with each other.
 
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#52
#52
TeacherDean hit on it about Russell: She is not aggressive enough. One time she got the ball 6 feet from the basket against Wichita State, had an open look and passed the ball out to the perimeter. Take the shot, girl, and don't fret if you miss. She really is playing soft, especially given all the talk about how much stronger she'd gotten, etc. We've got enough problems on offense without our 6'6" center being timid.
 
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#53
#53
Dean in the past has gotten the post girls playing good basketball. I noticed she can get good position when she wants to and can hold it. She seems to dislike contact and I personally would be a little ticked at some of those crazy passes Cooper is throwing when she penetrates all the way to the rim. She definitely needs more movement around the post. I get the impression that she gets in one spot and plants herself. I figure she will be a good player as a junior and senior but this year after sitting out she is soft and I guess it will take time for Dean to get her where she needs to be.
Same for Diamond she is not playing no where the superstar she is supposed to be but she is definitely still the best guard on the team.

Once Nared returns, I would try a three guard, two forward line up to see if it would be more effective, on both defensive and offense at this point, how could it hurt? ND uses that type of lineup very effectively. I know I am talking about Muffy McGraw vs. Holly Warlick.

1.Graves F
2. Nared F (Kortney)
3. Diamond D. F/G
4. Jones G
5. Carter PG (Te'a)

All thes players are aggressive and will play tough. They may also have the ability to produce more offense, and Jones can jump out the gym.
 
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#54
#54
Once Nared returns, I would try a three guard, two forward line up to see if it would be more effective, on both defensive and offense at this point, how could it hurt? ND uses that type of lineup very effectively. I know I am talking about Muffy McGraw vs. Holly Warlick.

1.Graves F
2. Nared F (Kortney)
3. Diamond D. F/G
4. Jones G
5. Carter PG (Te'a)

All thes players are aggressive and will play tough. They may also have the ability to produce more offense, and Jones can jump out the gym.

Notre Dame's starting 5 can all hit the 3 at a high clip, including Westbald at the 5. That lineup there would struggle to score from anywhere but the paint.
 
#56
#56
Dean in the past has gotten the post girls playing good basketball. I noticed she can get good position when she wants to and can hold it. She seems to dislike contact and I personally would be a little ticked at some of those crazy passes Cooper is throwing when she penetrates all the way to the rim. She definitely needs more movement around the post. I get the impression that she gets in one spot and plants herself. I figure she will be a good player as a junior and senior but this year after sitting out she is soft and I guess it will take time for Dean to get her where she needs to be.
Same for Diamond she is not playing no where the superstar she is supposed to be but she is definitely still the best guard on the team.

It seems like most of the issue with Mercedes is with aggressive triple teaming that will reduce once the wings start hitting their outside shots. She has a great hook shot but has a problem getting her momentum into the shot with one person behind and one person on each side pawing at the ball. It also seems like the high post is flashing in too early sometimes and that makes for a lot of congestion in the lane. The 10-12 ft jumper from the key looks open. That's where Burdick made a living. They will work out the timing but have to hit those open jumpers without hesitation.
 
#57
#57
Before we jump to conclusions about possible conflict on the LV team, look hard at Linnae Harper and why Kentucky was so willing to let her go anywhere regarding schools. Someone indicated that she was stubborn and hard headed and hard to coach while at Kentucky...so maybe the pot could be calling the kettle black.QUOTE]
I sat beside a ky fan during SEC tourney who said as much to me. She could tell in a few days there was division, even though it wasn't what I wanted to hear, true or not, at least I heard some type of explanation as to why she went somewhere else.
 
#58
#58
Hold wait a minute Taya left ND... I doubt she's even considering coming to Tennessee..... This team needs to get it together really fast.. I wonder if Staley is gonna have this issue with her team next year
When did she leave? I didn't know that. Before now I would have hoped maybe we could get her,Now I don;t have any hope.
 
#59
#59
When did she leave? I didn't know that. Before now I would have hoped maybe we could get her,Now I don;t have any hope.

Seems like it made the news 2days ago... she's going to stay enrolled and finish the academic year.. Some are saying that she may be done with basketball in general... Ya know Geno did want her she may find her way to Uconn lol
 
#60
#60
Before we jump to conclusions about possible conflict on the LV team, look hard at Linnae Harper and why Kentucky was so willing to let her go anywhere regarding schools. Someone indicated that she was stubborn and hard headed and hard to coach while at Kentucky...so maybe the pot could be calling the kettle black.QUOTE]
I sat beside a ky fan during SEC tourney who said as much to me. She could tell in a few days there was division, even though it wasn't what I wanted to hear, true or not, at least I heard some type of explanation as to why she went somewhere else.

I am afraid that many, many already jumped in with both feet. Mixing metaphors, this rumor, from unnamed sources, about what a transfer target supposedly "perceived" was red meat to the "fire Holly now" pack.

What is particularly unfortunate is that this rumor also provided an opening for certain LV "fans" to take cheap shots at several players, as though they had some kind of inside knowledge. Me thinks not a good day for the board.
 
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#61
#61
The Haters of the Lady Vols will run with Anything now in order to sling excrement at the Lady Vols program.

They try to make it seem that a RUMOR, possibly something one of the many UCONN fans on this board made up, is the truth.
 
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#62
#62
Make all the jokes you want...this team and program is on the decline:frown:

The program is not the pinnacle it once was (up to 2007 or so when Candace parker and company hung the last banner).

Following that, the LVs were eliminated in the first round by unheralded Ball State and have not pushed past the Great 8 since.

During Holly's tenure as head coach, she has been holding that reduced legacy steady: winning SEC titles and making it to the Great 8 (despite catastrophic injuries last season).

And this year the expectations are higher. With the additions of DeShields, Russell and Cooper they were expected to be competitive with the top flight and were given high odds to get back to the Final 4.

The early season performances have disappointing but it is early.There are a lot of tangible reasons why the team might be struggling-- injuries, new players being worked in, the coaches still figuring out how all the pieces (when rarely available fit together). Plus, Cooper is a freshman PG (and playing like it). DeShields and Russell have had full seasons off and at times still look quite rusty.

However, this team has a lot of upside potential and could look much different (and better) as the season goes on.

We could be talking about why certain combinations of players might be better than others; why some players are not performing up to par (and there is some of that discussion) but jumping on the nega-band wagon and proclaiming "I KNEW IT! this rumor about team chemistry explains everything-- its all conflict and jealousy"-- is a far bigger joke than anything I could invent.
 
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#63
#63
There are a lot of tangible reasons why the team might be struggling-- injuries, new players being worked in, the coaches still figuring out how all the pieces (when rarely available fit together).

Valid points...but a word about injuries (and new players).

We have struggled against other teams who have also been hampered by injuries. Wasn't Wichita State's leading scorer out for the game? And ETSU...which kept up early...was missing their leading scorer/best player.

Meanwhile, our most talented players & most highly-ranked players (except Nared) have been available, even if DeShields has been hurting. Compare our injured roster to an unranked team losing their best player...one who accounts for a huge part of their scoring each night...and notice that some still take up the slack & hang with us. Losing Harrison last year was a blow...but this year's injuries, so far, have mostly affected depth. We have plenty of talent & experience to put on the floor to be able to overwhelm most opponents. To be honest, injuries just sounds like an excuse when it comes to the likes of VA Tech & Wichita St.

Keep in mind that Chattanooga beat us last year with a starter/team leader out with an injury. Other teams with far less depth and talent have to cope with those problems...and those problems should affect them more.

Same with "new players." Yes, it takes a while for new players to get used to each other, but that accounts for the occasional errant pass, misread cut, blown assignment, failure to call the pick, etc. It shouldn't account for standing around on offense, failing to react to rebounds, failing to collapse in help defense, not getting back in transition, etc. Those are skills learned at a very young age these days by most players...just plain fundamental basketball. You could watch college intramural teams who have just recently met, and their best players know most of the above (and do them in games).

Also consider some of the freshman players for other teams who are lighting it up. They don't seem to have the difficulty adapting.

The points you & others have made about negativity should be considered. However, the coaching staff & players could stop a lot of the negativity by addressing the fundamental problems on the court. It's not just a matter of wins/losses/margins of victory. If the coaches exhibited confidence that the problems would be fixed (instead of saying, "I could stand on my head...I don't know what else to do...I decided not to talk to them since they wouldn't listen") and the players were busting their butts on every play (and actually trying to get open & find the open player), I believe that most fans would be squarely behind both coaches & players.

Also, IMO, some critics need to stop acting as though it's wrong to compare the state of the current program to (A) past LV teams and (B) UCONN...not that it's wrong to compare to either. After all, that's what EVERY team should aspire to become...or at least, the attitude to emulate (pursuit of excellence). The critics need to realize that we're comparing our program against the likes of ND, Baylor, SC, and even other SEC teams whom we used to dominate.

UCONN is not the only team to maintain consistency as a Top 5 team. Right now, we're just aspiring to be as successful as Notre Dame over the last decade...a perennial contender. That was the position we used to occupy & where most would like to see us reach again. To do that, there has to be a lot of improvement among the players who ARE available. This isn't the "Baby Vols" team consisting mainly of freshmen; these players have game & practice experience playing together. Cooper is the only real rookie getting much floor time, and by this point in the season, we should be seeing some stretches of really good basketball. That is all most people are asking for. FL State had 26 turnovers against UCONN...but that was against UCONN...not Wichita State.

The "Fire Holly" talk can be suspended (ain't going to happen right now anyway, nor should it), but fans have every right to express their disapproval of the effort & execution on the floor. At this point, there's not a lot else to talk about unless it's just to express blind faith that things will improve by March (and that other teams have peaked already and won't also be improving).

Just sayin'.
 
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#64
#64
Valid points...but a word about injuries (and new players).

We have struggled against other teams who have also been hampered by injuries. Wasn't Wichita State's leading scorer out for the game? And ETSU...which kept up early...was missing their leading scorer/best player.

Meanwhile, our most talented players & most highly-ranked players (except Nared) have been available, even if DeShields has been hurting. Compare our injured roster to an unranked team losing their best player...one who accounts for a huge part of their scoring each night...and notice that some still take up the slack & hang with us. Losing Harrison last year was a blow...but this year's injuries, so far, have mostly affected depth. We have plenty of talent & experience to put on the floor to be able to overwhelm most opponents. To be honest, injuries just sounds like an excuse when it comes to the likes of VA Tech & Wichita St.

Keep in mind that Chattanooga beat us last year with a starter/team leader out with an injury. Other teams with far less depth and talent have to cope with those problems...and those problems should affect them more.

Same with "new players." Yes, it takes a while for new players to get used to each other, but that accounts for the occasional errant pass, misread cut, blown assignment, failure to call the pick, etc. It shouldn't account for standing around on offense, failing to react to rebounds, failing to collapse in help defense, not getting back in transition, etc. Those are skills learned at a very young age these days by most players...just plain fundamental basketball. You could watch college intramural teams who have just recently met, and their best players know most of the above (and do them in games).

Also consider some of the freshman players for other teams who are lighting it up. They don't seem to have the difficulty adapting.

The points you & others have made about negativity should be considered. However, the coaching staff & players could stop a lot of the negativity by addressing the fundamental problems on the court. It's not just a matter of wins/losses/margins of victory. If the coaches exhibited confidence that the problems would be fixed (instead of saying, "I could stand on my head...I don't know what else to do...I decided not to talk to them since they wouldn't listen") and the players were busting their butts on every play (and actually trying to get open & find the open player), I believe that most fans would be squarely behind both coaches & players.

Also, IMO, some critics need to stop acting as though it's wrong to compare the state of the current program to (A) past LV teams and (B) UCONN...not that it's wrong to compare to either. After all, that's what EVERY team should aspire to become...or at least, the attitude to emulate (pursuit of excellence). The critics need to realize that we're comparing our program against the likes of ND, Baylor, SC, and even other SEC teams whom we used to dominate.

UCONN is not the only team to maintain consistency as a Top 5 team. Right now, we're just aspiring to be as successful as Notre Dame over the last decade...a perennial contender. That was the position we used to occupy & where most would like to see us reach again. To do that, there has to be a lot of improvement among the players who ARE available. This isn't the "Baby Vols" team consisting mainly of freshmen; these players have game & practice experience playing together. Cooper is the only real rookie getting much floor time, and by this point in the season, we should be seeing some stretches of really good basketball. That is all most people are asking for. FL State had 26 turnovers against UCONN...but that was against UCONN...not Wichita State.

The "Fire Holly" talk can be suspended (ain't going to happen right now anyway, nor should it), but fans have every right to express their disapproval of the effort & execution on the floor. At this point, there's not a lot else to talk about unless it's just to express blind faith that things will improve by March (and that other teams have peaked already and won't also be improving).

Just sayin'.
100% correct with this post. Some say we shouldn't be the ones to critique this staff but I differ with that opinion. My dollars go to support this team and have for a long time. I've been going to SEC tourneys since before the current players were even born. I've been to multiple Final Fours. I have seen every game they have played since they started putting games online a few years ago and I'm not talking about the SEC network stuff. I've seen them in person 2 times already this year and I don't live close to Knoxville. I feel I've earned the right to voice the problems I see on the court. I'm not calling for anybody's job....yet, but the situation HAS to improve.
 
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#65
#65
Valid points...but a word about injuries (and new players).

We have struggled against other teams who have also been hampered by injuries. Wasn't Wichita State's leading scorer out for the game? And ETSU...which kept up early...was missing their leading scorer/best player.
...

Good Post Creek.
Madtownvol is a loyal LV fan. And he's right, "this team has a lot of upside potential and could look much different (and better) as the season goes on. " Or, as some of us fear, the team could stay on it's current trajectory and wind up 3rd or 4th in the SEC. Time will tell and Holly isn't going anywhere this year anyway.
Regarding the supposed discontent among teammates, I see it this way. This year's team is generally conceded to have significantly more talent than last year's team (especially with all the injured players out last year), Yet we are currently playing at a lower level than at any time last year. There has to be a reason for that (And it's not the players have to get to know each other. Russell and DeShields practiced last season with these same players except for Cooper).
Discord among teammates, if true, would be an answer to the poor performance so far. Another could be the we have just rated the players too high. Holly's results so far have been fairly consistent. Her teams win 80% of their games, the SEC title and make it to the sweet 16 or elite 8.
This year's team will have to make an abrupt turnaround to reach those standards. If the coach is the same, then the answer to the team's performance has to lie somewhere else. I'm open to suggestions.
 
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#66
#66
There are a lot of differing opinions on this board on the root causes of the problems plaguing this year's team. Some people are right, some are wrong. It really doesn't matter who falls into each category because nothing said here is going to make the AD, the coaches, or the players change anything they are doing this season. The comments written here probably have little, if any, influence on recruits. VolNation is a great venue for passionate fans of WCBB to share, educate, and vent. Lately is has been mostly venting.

The articles and comments shared by mainstream media fall into a different category. Whether the opinions expressed are accurate or fair depictions of the current state of Tennessee basketball isn't the issue. Those opinions (right or wrong) are out there for all the world to see: recruits, coaches, parents, opponents. It doesn't matter if the comments come from Harper, the two recent negative articles written by ESPN, or the commentators airing Vols basketball games (on national television) who have been highly critical of Holly and the team. People that matter in WCBB are hearing a steady barrage of negativity regarding the program. After a while, it starts to take on a life of its own.

Tennessee was once the gold standard of WCBB. How does the basketball community throughout the country perceive the program now? Addressing (and correcting) that perception is more important than the internal squabbles of the members who post on this board.
 
#68
#68
The only thing that will slow down the negative press is wins.....Nothing else.

Penn State, Syracuse, Chattanooga, Albany, and Wichita State were all wins. That didn't slow down any of the criticism. In fact, the team's play during those wins is what has created a lot of the concerns.
 
#70
#70
The program is not the pinnacle it once was (up to 2007 or so when Candace parker and company hung the last banner).

Following that, the LVs were eliminated in the first round by unheralded Ball State and have not pushed past the Great 8 since.

During Holly's tenure as head coach, she has been holding that reduced legacy steady: winning SEC titles and making it to the Great 8 (despite catastrophic injuries last season).

And this year the expectations are higher. With the additions of DeShields, Russell and Cooper they were expected to be competitive with the top flight and were given high odds to get back to the Final 4.

The early season performances have disappointing but it is early.There are a lot of tangible reasons why the team might be struggling-- injuries, new players being worked in, the coaches still figuring out how all the pieces (when rarely available fit together). Plus, Cooper is a freshman PG (and playing like it). DeShields and Russell have had full seasons off and at times still look quite rusty.

However, this team has a lot of upside potential and could look much different (and better) as the season goes on.

We could be talking about why certain combinations of players might be better than others; why some players are not performing up to par (and there is some of that discussion) but jumping on the nega-band wagon and proclaiming "I KNEW IT! this rumor about team chemistry explains everything-- its all conflict and jealousy"-- is a far bigger joke than anything I could invent.

This :lolabove:
 
#71
#71
If anyone doesn't think there is a chemistry problem with this team. Look at this board. Half the members on here can't agree. And we're not in the same room. Imagine these girls with each other every day.
 
#72
#72
If anyone doesn't think there is a chemistry problem with this team. Look at this board. Half the members on here can't agree. And we're not in the same room. Imagine these girls with each other every day.

Okay let me understand this logic. The conflicts on a message board, with people of all walks expressing different opinions, are a clear indication that there are locker room problems among the 12 or so women on the LVs.

You realize that all message boards are divided like this whenever a team is not living up to expectations. What goes on in the realm of fandom does not automatically translate to a team.

You might as well say, "well there must family conflicts in the home of such and such player or coach because the people on this board can't agree."

Oh well, you believe what you will believe.
 
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#73
#73
this is a more talented team than last year's as so far proved not to be true. Inside, we lost Harrison and gained Russell. Harrison was better. Russell has definite upside but has been quite underwhelming thus far. Outside, we had Massengale making threes last year and this year our three-point shooting has been terrible. DeShields has made a few, but we have no dependable three-point shooter(s) at the moment. I was not a fan of Massengale, but she gave us more at the perimeter than anyone has so far this year.

This team certainly has the potential to get better. DeShields hasn't really shown what she can do, Nared is talented and will help when she starts playing again, and our guards will probably play better as they couldn't play any worse than they have so far. However, we'll need to get a LOT better to challenge for a final four berth this year. Can our coaches improve this team significantly over the course of the year? Uhhhh....we'll see.
 
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#74
#74
As of now final 4 talk is not prudent...Of course, the Oak tress was once an acorn too.
We will see.
 
#75
#75
I can't help but believe that CPS would have a solution to this problem or at least change something. I will always remember when she locked the team out of their dressing room because the way they were playing they were not worthy to use the same facilities as the other great players of the past. As I recollect the team got better quickly before she let them back in. Kicking butt and taking charge sometimes works.
 

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