Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#51,803
#51,803
lawgator1 said:
Not the point.

Trump has no class. Even if you don't like the guy, he was a President and his message was certainly well taken.

Simply trashing him as not loyal to Trump was cheap. But that's the word that most aptly describes Trump. Cheap.
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Not that I care what you guys are discussing, but you're using the fact Bush was President as a qualifier for whatever he said. Remind me, who's the current President and what do you think of what he has to say?

Having been or being President doesn't make you right. All I'm sayin'.
 
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#51,804
#51,804
Just spitballing here, but maybe people shouldn't get in close contact without masks while toting their weekend rambo toys and shout at their governors that it's all a hoax.

 
#51,805
#51,805
Purple Tiger said:
No, but I do think your obfuscation adds nothing to this discussion. Try to stay on point.
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How am I obfuscating?

And who are you to decide who is and who isn't? Why should we obey anything you order us to do? What makes you think you are adding anything of value to this discussion?

I'll wait for your enlightening answer to these questions.
 
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#51,806
#51,806
LouderVol said:
It's pretty much the same. I wasnt here during the bush years but this is a repeat of the Obama years. Just like with everything politics they switched sides of the field at half. I think some just like attacking better than defending and vice versa.

I was just thinking all the Trump blaming is getting to "Thanks Obama" level. The incostincncy of Trump can similarly go back to "Yesterday Obama said it was Tuesday, today he said its Wednesday, which is it Obama".

For me it's just constant reinforcement that the system is broken and that we need someone like Amash who has removed himself from the parties.

As long as we let the politicians define us by party it will stay this way of partisanship. And it will just get worse and worse as the system keeps the primaries to the extremes and general to the center.
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You got to work on campaigning for your boi. People get freaked out by names.
 
#51,808
#51,808
zeppelin128 said:
Lol, you aren't going to be on any of our lists.
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iu
 
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#51,809
#51,809
Purple Tiger said:
First of all, your context did not truly rebut my statement. Secondly, you had no retort to my other claims because you know they are true. Rebut away oh wordy one.
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How do I rebut galactic ignorance or willful deceit with a few sentences? Okay, I'll try:

2/24/20 - Trump tweet​
"The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!"​
​
On Feb 24 the U.S. had 15 - FIFTEEN - cases. On Feb 18, Fauci stated the U.S. was at miniscule risk from the virus and to worry about the flu instead. On Feb 19, he stated he thought the data from China regarding the outbreak could be believed. Both he and Birx in just the last month have moved away from the position of trusting the China numbers, and have stated neither they nor the rest of the world knew what they didn't know; the virulence and character of the virus.

Now, you get to explain where the "f-up" is; I'll wait.
 
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#51,810
#51,810
NCFisher said:
How do I rebut galactic ignorance or willful deceit with a few sentences? Okay, I'll try:

2/24/20 - Trump tweet​
"The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!"​
​
On Feb 24 the U.S. had 10 - TEN - cases. On Feb 18, Fauci stated the U.S. was at miniscule risk from the virus and to worry about the flu instead. On Feb 19, he stated he thought the data from China regarding the outbreak could be believed. Both he and Birx in just the last month have moved away from the position of trusting the China numbers, and have stated neither they nor the rest of the world knew what they didn't know; the virulence and character of the virus.

Now, you get to explain where the "f-up" is; I'll wait.
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I provided a direct quote from Trump. Was it the truth? Can you tell me how that wasn't a lie, given the fact our intelligence had been telling him information to the contrary and that the virus was never contained?
 
#51,812
#51,812
Purple Tiger said:
I provided a direct quote from Trump. Was it the truth? Can you tell me how that wasn't a lie, given the fact our intelligence had been telling him information to the contrary and that the virus was never contained?
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How is a handful of cases interpreted as NOT in control, especially when your experts are stating into March we should go about our lives, and who thought the virus would take a more flu-like path, along with virtually every other Western country?? You are in the impossible position to prove that something thought by the 'experts' to be one thing but proving later to be another, to be a "lie". You clearly don't understand the concept of 'lying'; it is a willful misstatement of something known to be untrue at the time it is said. Trump clearly didn't lie unless you claim the expert agencies advising him also lied; go for it.

Further, I'll have you back up your claim that our intel told him on or prior to Feb 24 that it was out of control (with 15 U.S. cases, remember?) or that we were inevitably headed for a pandemic. Put up or shut up.
 
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#51,813
#51,813
NCFisher said:
How is a handful of cases interpreted as NOT in control, especially when your experts are stating into March we should go about our lives, and who thought the virus would take a more flu-like path, along with virtually every other Western country?? You are in the impossible position to prove that something thought by the 'experts' to be one thing but proving later to be another, to be a "lie". You clearly don't understand the concept of 'lying'; it is a willful misstatement of something known to be untrue at the time it is said. Trump clearly didn't lie unless you claim the expert agencies advising him also lied; go for it.

Further, I'll have you back up your claim that our intel told him on or prior to Feb 24 that it was out of control (with 15 U.S. cases, remember?) or that we were inevitably headed for a pandemic. Put up or shut up.
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I have put up but you won't shut up. I gave you a direct quote from Trump and you still want to ask me questions about it. Given what we now know, Trump was lying. Also, are you unable to communicate with someone whose opinion differs from them without being demeaning? You certainly aren't coming across as very learned when you do that.
 
#51,815
#51,815
evillawyer said:
Just spitballing here, but maybe people shouldn't get in close contact without masks while toting their weekend rambo toys and shout at their governors that it's all a hoax.

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We have identified that NY is a nasty place to live with terrible leadership. That’s not knoxville
 
#51,819
#51,819
Weezer said:
Not that I care what you guys are discussing, but you're using the fact Bush was President as a qualifier for whatever he said. Remind me, who's the current President and what do you think of what he has to say?

Having been or being President doesn't make you right. All I'm sayin'.
Click to expand...

Being a former President does not automatically make him "right" about any factual statement. That's true.

But two things.

First, Bush was not making a statement of fact, he was simply urging everyone to put partisanship aside and work to overcome the virus. Hardly a controversial thing to say.

Second, as a former President, even if Trump disagreed with him, there are classy ways to do that and jerk ways to do it, and Trump chose the latter.

Bottom line is that Trump saw Bush's promotion of a unified approach as not flattering to Trump. Ergo, Trump just attacked him. Its what he does. Anything less than a "thankyou , Mr. Trump" and appeal to his ego is met with a vicious, demeaning, and rude rebuke.

And what's more, I will tell you, I think for awhile it worked. At least with the base. And surely there are some in the base who still like his combative style. But it is my sense that it is wearing thin, overall. It is my personal impression that some parts of the Republican voters are increasingly fed up with it because, while there is a momentary gratification of the desire to antagonize the left in some way, it is fleeting, and in the end inhibits getting things done. I do sense that people are beginning to see that.
 
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#51,821
#51,821
Purple Tiger said:
I have put up but you won't shut up. I gave you a direct quote from Trump and you still want to ask me questions about it. Given what we now know, Trump was lying. Also, are you unable to communicate with someone whose opinion differs from them without being demeaning? You certainly aren't coming across as very learned when you do that.
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Oh, please; you've a solid history of being demeaning, insulting, and ridiculous. If you're saying you're turning over a new leaf - great!, I'll keep that in mind.

"Given what we now know..." - is some kind of crazy irony; again, what we know now does not make what we knew then, "lies". Again, to claim such, you have to show that our experts were telling Trump "hey, man, we're heading for a pandemic and it's already out of control here even though we have just 15 cases".

Top disease official: Risk of coronavirus in USA is 'minuscule'; skip mask and wash hands
USA TODAY
Jayne O'Donnell, USA TODAY
,USA TODAY•February 18, 2020



If that testing shows the virus has slipped into the country in places federal officials don't know about, "we've got a problem," Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told USA TODAY's Editorial Board Monday.​
​
Short of that, Fauci says skip the masks unless you are contagious, don't worry about catching anything from Chinese products and certainly don't avoid Chinese people or restaurants.​
​
"Whenever you have the threat of a transmissible infection, there are varying degrees from understandable to outlandish extrapolations of fear," Fauci said. Fauci doesn't want people to worry about coronavirus, the danger of which is "just minuscule." But he does want them to take precautions against the "influenza outbreak, which is having its second wave."​
​
"We have more kids dying of flu this year at this time than in the last decade or more," he said. "At the same time people are worrying about going to a Chinese restaurant. The threat is (we have) a pretty bad influenza season, particularly dangerous for our children."​
​
Fauci offered advice for people who want to protect against the "real and present danger" of seasonal flu, which also would protect against the hypothetical danger of coronavirus.​
​
"Wash your hands as frequently as you can. Stay away from crowded places where people are coughing and sneezing. If in fact you are coughing and sneezing, cover your mouth," he says.​
​
"You know, all the things that we say each year."​
https://news.yahoo.com/top-...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
April 3:
Dr. Deborah Birx, the response coordinator for the White House
coronavirus task force, told Fox News Thursday that initial data about the coronavirus outbreak from China left U.S. officials unable to properly prepare for when the virus made its way to the U.S.​
​
"The bottom line is we didn't know how contagious it was," Brix told Martha MacCallum during a special Fox News digital town hall event. "And I think when you make misassumptions around contagion early on, then you don't prepare in the way that you should prepare for the level of contagion that this COVID-19 exhibits."​
​
"I think when we looked at the profile, first there was a question about human-to-human transmission -- that's really key because it stops with that first set of transmission," Dr. Birx said. "So there was that first question, and I think when you're in the midst of an epidemic, it is hard for you to be testing at a level that you need to to really look for those asymptomatic cases and really look for those people with mild disease.​
​
"So now we're finding out that most of the reporting was around very severe cases."​
​
Birx added that because the early data was produced by China during a "very difficult situation" officials there were not fully measuring asymptomatic or mild cases.​
​
"In that case," she said, "that may be a significant portion of the epidemic, and so we didn't know how it was spreading."​
https://www.foxnews.com/med...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That (lying) clearly wasn't the situation, was it? No, in fact, there is NO discrepancy between Trump's statement and what our medical and pandemic experts were telling the public us. The timeline proves that.

You can thank me that you no longer have to repeat such falsehoods. Because NOW that you KNOW them to be false, continuing to repeat them would be a LIE. And we certainly don't want you to be falsely termed a liar, do we?
 
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#51,822
#51,822
lawgator1 said:
Being a former President does not automatically make him "right" about any factual statement. That's true.

But two things.

First, Bush was not making a statement of fact, he was simply urging everyone to put partisanship aside and work to overcome the virus. Hardly a controversial thing to say.

Second, as a former President, even if Trump disagreed with him, there are classy ways to do that and jerk ways to do it, and Trump chose the latter.

Bottom line is that Trump saw Bush's promotion of a unified approach as not flattering to Trump. Ergo, Trump just attacked him. Its what he does. Anything less than a "thankyou , Mr. Trump" and appeal to his ego is met with a vicious, demeaning, and rude rebuke.

And what's more, I will tell you, I think for awhile it worked. At least with the base. And surely there are some in the base who still like his combative style. But it is my sense that it is wearing thin, overall. It is my personal impression that some parts of the Republican voters are increasingly fed up with it because, while there is a momentary gratification of the desire to antagonize the left in some way, it is fleeting, and in the end inhibits getting things done. I do sense that people are beginning to see that.
Click to expand...
You're taking it beyond the point I was making, and I don't really care for a long discussion right now. My only point is having been President is not a legitimate qualifier. If you say to me, "well, he was the President", I don't give a rat's ass. It doesn't strengthen the argument IMO. That's all I'm saying. Base your argument off something stronger than that from the start.
 
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