Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#97,578
#97,578
n_huffhines said:
That research is not peer reviewed and the comments hold valid critiques
Click to expand...

I agree with most, if not all, the critiques. Unfortunately there is really no way to do a true randomized study. There are just too many variables affecting any data that may be gathered. So, how would one prove a null hypothesis that masks do not make a difference compared to not masking? All while controlling for all the other variables which include every other non-pharmaceutical intervention.
 
Last edited:
#97,579
#97,579
newyorkvol said:
I agree with most, if not all, the critiques. Unfortunately there is really no way to do a true randomized study. There are just too many variables affecting any data that may be gathered. So, how would one prove a null hypothesis that masks do not make a difference compared to masking? All while controlling for all the other variables which include every other non-pharmaceutical intervention.
Click to expand...

I'd say the most telling thing about the mask question is that there simply isn't strong evidence they made a significant difference. Even the study that was hailed as proof of the need for masks showed pretty small effects (slight slowing of the growth rate of infections).

If everyone properly wore N95 equivalent masks then the impact could have been greater but as we know, people wore all sorts of face coverings which have questionable at best impact.

The other confound is social distancing - masks and social distancing have considerable overlap in terms of protection. Do masks add any significant protection in social distance situations? Again, controlled experiments would be required to determine this.

So in close contact, proper masking was probably important. In socially distanced situations, masking probably didn't do much unless it was a poor ventilation area. In socially distanced situations outdoors, masks were likely worthless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RavinDave, newyorkvol and AshG
#97,580
#97,580
BigOrangeTrain said:
Wonder why the 22 page paper by the two scientists, talking about the amino acids not being in nature, is set to be published in the Quarterly Review of Biophysics Discovery?
Click to expand...

Welcome to the world of journal publication, where a journal will publish papers with controversial information to spur further inquiry and encourage more research.

It makes little sense to the uninitiated, but it's a viable way to promote deeper inquiry.
 
#97,581
#97,581
Pardon the aside, but I am really enjoying the increase in informed discussion in this thread. People with serious disagreements and data to back up their position, having mature discussions where positions are treated seriously and data is used to reply. And none of these people are named calling or using epithets.

It gives me hope. I wish more of our discussions were like this.
 
#97,582
#97,582
AshG said:
Pardon the aside, but I am really enjoying the increase in informed discussion in this thread. People with serious disagreements and data to back up their position, having mature discussions where positions are treated seriously and data is used to reply. And none of these people are named calling or using epithets.

It gives me hope. I wish more of our discussions were like this.
Click to expand...

... Ahhh shaduuup .
 
  • Like
Reactions: NorthDallas40 and AshG
#97,583
#97,583
n_huffhines said:
250 million? You got your finger on the trigger and you say no to saving 250m lives?
Click to expand...

Where do you get such a scenario? Why is the POTUS responsible for my life in regards to a virus?

Why can I not lockdown on my own choosing without he or some governor telling me to?
 
#97,584
#97,584
AshG said:
Pardon the aside, but I am really enjoying the increase in informed discussion in this thread. People with serious disagreements and data to back up their position, having mature discussions where positions are treated seriously and data is used to reply. And none of these people are named calling or using epithets.

It gives me hope. I wish more of our discussions were like this.
Click to expand...

Butt kisser.
 
#97,585
#97,585
allvol123 said:
Where do you get such a scenario? Why is the POTUS responsible for my life in regards to a virus?

Why can I not lockdown on my own choosing without he or some governor telling me to?
Click to expand...
I think it’s called “ I’m sick, I’m staying home” millions of people have done it for a very long time.
So I take it we are back to wash your hands, protect the vulnerable, don’t touch your face, if you are sick stay home. Good common sense stuff that wouldn’t have caused the economic meltdown.
I’m not underplaying how bad covid was for those who ended up in ICU with it. It was bad.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: LouderVol and allvol123
#97,588
#97,588
Would those of you not in support of lockdowns be in support of protections for the immunocompromised to prevent them from losing their jobs or wages in the event of another pandemic type event?
 
#97,592
#97,592
AshG said:
I was rather specific. That those susceptible to infection or otherwise immunocompromised be allowed to lock down during the period of the outbreak without loss of wages or employment.
Click to expand...
Well hands on people with other people are not the same as someone who can do their job via Internet. If they can do their job via Internet great. If they risk compromising themselves being around others then what do you propose we do?
 
#97,593
#97,593
NurseGoodVol said:
Well hands on people with other people are not the same as someone who can do their job via Internet. If they can do their job via Internet great. If they risk compromising themselves being around others then what do you propose we do?
Click to expand...

Those who can work from home, work from home. Those who can't should be given appropriate work by their employer that can be done at home. If the employer cannot provide that work, they must continue to pay and employ the worker until such time as work can be provided or the employee can return.

And I use my mom's definition of what to do when compromised: no grocery store, no ball games, don't be seen outside. Enjoy your delivery. If you muck up and post on Tweety or Facezine about your trip to Cancun while you're quarantining, bye bye job.
 
#97,595
#97,595
AshG said:
I was rather specific. That those susceptible to infection or otherwise immunocompromised be allowed to lock down during the period of the outbreak without loss of wages or employment.
Click to expand...

Who pays for those lost wages? The company or the gov't? Small companies can't afford to pay for employees not to work
 
#97,596
#97,596
AshG said:
Those who can work from home, work from home. Those who can't should be given appropriate work by their employer that can be done at home. If the employer cannot provide that work, they must continue to pay and employ the worker until such time as work can be provided or the employee can return.

And I use my mom's definition of what to do when compromised: no grocery store, no ball games, don't be seen outside. Enjoy your delivery. If you muck up and post on Tweety or Facezine about your trip to Cancun while you're quarantining, bye bye job.
Click to expand...

If the employer gets a tax credit, OK, but otherwise, you risk bankrupting an employer
 
  • Like
Reactions: AshG
#97,597
#97,597
Sea Ray said:
Who pays for those lost wages? The company or the gov't? Small companies can't afford to pay for employees not to work
Click to expand...

The richest country in the history of the planet can't find ways to take care of their ill and immunocompromised. At some point we have to put aside ideological purity and do what is right for those who cannot help themselves.

Allow them to sign up for temporary disability, then.
 
#97,599
#97,599
n_huffhines said:
Out of curiosity, how many lives would need to be saved before you supported lockdowns?
Click to expand...

That number does exist. I see where you are trying to take this discussion because you want to be able to say "is X number of lives worth saving with a lockdown". But as we have seen over the last year, the cure can be just as bad as the disease with these lockdowns breaking up businesses, families, growing suicide and homicide rates, etc.

A decision to lockdown should not be taken lightly.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top