Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#103,051
#103,051
Gladiator1 said:
Had a lazy evening watching TV and have seen drug commercials helping with diabetes, cancer, mental disorders etc..
All come with side effects from anal leakage to higher risk of contacting TB and everything in between. How can it be that vaccines created in less than a year be totally safe? Serious question here and if already covered, my apologies.
Please do give me the excuse that this has been in the making for 40 years.
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Nothing is ever totally safe. People can die drinking a glass of water.

The technology for this vaccine has been in progress since SARS-CoV-1.

If you want a reason to get the vaccine, you will find it. If you want a reason not to get the vaccine, you will find it. Be honest with yourself about your most desired outcome.
 
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#103,053
#103,053
AshG said:
The doctors who are claiming great success with ivermectin are not performing research. There is no repeatable methodology. There is no control group receiving all the same therapies but ivermectin. In short, we are relying on their anecdotal information.

The PRINCIPLE research stream in the UK is performing those tests using ivermectin, budesonide, and other therapeutics. If ivermectin proves in rigorous research to be what it claims, then sign me up.

Clinical trials are not infallible, but they do offer a significantly higher statistical power than multiple small scale anecdotal trials. Clinical trials, conducted correctly, generally give us better than 99% accuracy and a high level of confidence as well as a sizable paper trail should something happen long term.

The largest issue with ivermectin is the dosing. You cannot have a standardized dose; it is body mass dependent. Proper administration requires careful control to prevent no effect on the low side or poisoning on the overdose side. While it is considered safe for a pregnant or nursing mother to receive an mRNA vaccine, pregnant or nursing mothers may not take ivermectin due to a risk of toxicity for the baby both in utero and while breastfeeding.
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From peer-reviewed UpToDate, the most current and respected medical information we have:

Screenshot_20210814-233548_Epocrates.jpg
Screenshot_20210814-233644_Epocrates.jpg
 
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#103,054
#103,054
The Original Fade said:
How many people has the vaccine killed vs Covid?
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COVID has killed more. Yet the fact remains the vaccine can kill you and give you life long, severe complications. COVID also has a 96-99% survival rate (depending on age group). The vaccine isn’t that effective.

But it’s all a moot point. I suspect the American people will be forced to get the vaccine anyways eventually.
 
#103,055
#103,055
AshG said:
The doctors who are claiming great success with ivermectin are not performing research. There is no repeatable methodology. There is no control group receiving all the same therapies but ivermectin. In short, we are relying on their anecdotal information.

The PRINCIPLE research stream in the UK is performing those tests using ivermectin, budesonide, and other therapeutics. If ivermectin proves in rigorous research to be what it claims, then sign me up.

Clinical trials are not infallible, but they do offer a significantly higher statistical power than multiple small scale anecdotal trials. Clinical trials, conducted correctly, generally give us better than 99% accuracy and a high level of confidence as well as a sizable paper trail should something happen long term.

The largest issue with ivermectin is the dosing. You cannot have a standardized dose; it is body mass dependent. Proper administration requires careful control to prevent no effect on the low side or poisoning on the overdose side. While it is considered safe for a pregnant or nursing mother to receive an mRNA vaccine, pregnant or nursing mothers may not take ivermectin due to a risk of toxicity for the baby both in utero and while breastfeeding.
Click to expand...

So actually treating patients isn’t research? So my best friend is an infectious disease specialist in SC. He focuses mainly on HIV positive patients. Basically those with compromised immune systems. He used Ivermectin with great success. He did lose two patients during the pandemic. However both had severe diabetes, were heavy drug addicts and lived a very unhygienic lifestyle.

So please tell me how him using Ivermectin, seeing success with some of the most vulnerable population, is not research? If you were to ask him if Ivermectin works (which I did), he said yes. You would state clinical trials say it doesn’t. How can you (who doesn’t treat patients) say he is wrong by stating clinical trials says it doesn’t work? Sorry but that’s just wrong.
 
#103,057
#103,057
BigOrangeTrain said:
So please tell me how him using Ivermectin, seeing success with some of the most vulnerable population, is not research? If you were to ask him if Ivermectin works (which I did), he said yes. You would state clinical trials say it doesn’t. How can you (who doesn’t treat patients) say he is wrong by stating clinical trials says it doesn’t work? Sorry but that’s just wrong.
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In the very rudimentary sense, yes; your friend was doing research. He tried something based on his expertise and prior knowledge and it worked. That is one form of research.

When I talk about research, I am talking about pre-planned methodical testing that uses a control group which receives no treatment as well as the tested group receiving the treatment. Every step is documented so it can be repeated elsewhere for confirmation.

I haven't stated that clinical trials say it doesn't work; I've mentioned repeatedly that it is currently a continuing part of the PRINCIPLE trials in the UK.

Having spent most of the past couple hours with my head in early research on ivermectin used for Covid rehabilitation, I am now fearful that some PharmaBro will come along, have it tested for use, and jack the price up ridiculously just because they can.
 
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#103,058
#103,058
The Original Fade said:
Your still not required to. No one will arrest you, you’ll just pay a fine. Oh the injustice
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You know, the more I see of your rantings, the more I agree with you. I think if you choose not to get the jab, then you should not burden the system with ICU care. However, if this is enacted, would it be suitable for the unvaccinated to continue to live their lives as no differently than the vaccinated and have ample access to the "experimental" or "unproven" therapeutics (Ivermectin or whatever else is available)? I'm careful to say "ICU" care because there may require a hospital visit to get some of the therapeutic treatments available, but it would be outpatient care and wouldn't take up any ICU beds or respirators.
 
#103,060
#103,060
evillawyer said:
Seems like she'd be a good addition to this forum. She'd fit right in. Maybe a little too lefty for some.

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I swear this world is getting nuttier every day. What the hell is she talking about with 800,000 missing kids? I have to admit, the ending made me laugh. It’s all about the children and not complying over and over and then out of nowhere, “Trump won.” I mean WTF? Where the hell did that come from? That one was pretty funny EL. Well done.
 
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#103,061
#103,061
TN Ribs said:
Terrified of his stupidity, as well they should be. This moron is literally ignoring common sense public health measures to score political points. He's as depraved as his idol Trump.
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Do you support the Federal overreach in going against law passed by the Florida legislature?
 
#103,065
#103,065
AshG said:
It's been this way. I had to hand over my children's vaccine passports to enroll them in kindergarten, then again for each school they've transferred to.

I couldn't get a teaching job without the TB jab.

There is nothing new under the sun.
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Quantitative tb test would relieve you of a tb jab. Did they not offer you a blood test instead of just saying you needed a shot?
 
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#103,068
#103,068
Ernest T. Vol said:
Thank you. She is doing well after these past two days. Same as RollinVol described for his wife... she just feels like she has a bad cold with a fever. Up moving around now trying to infect me. We're all going to have to get boosters.
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It’s obviously different for everyone but that was what having covid was like for my wife and I without the vaccine. For my son it wasn’t even that. For my older MIL and GMIL it was a little worse but the GMIL is mid-80s with heart disease and diabetes. No one got sick enough to go to the hospital though. On the flip side, I know a guy who’s wife died last year. She was just under 50 but a heavy smoker for many years. I hope you and yours are safe and well.
 
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#103,069
#103,069
Franklin Pierce said:
Border Patrol Seizes Thousands of Falsified COVID-19 vaccine cards in Tennessee

U.S. Customs and Border Protection has seized thousands of falsified COVID-19 vaccine cards from China in Memphis, Tenn.

Border Patrol agents have had 121 seizures of fake vaccination cards so far this fiscal year, amounting to 3,017 falsified cards confiscated, according to a statement from the agency on released Friday.

Border Patrol seizes thousands of falsified COVID-19 vaccine cards in Tennessee
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Who’s have thought TN would be the state to come up with fake vaccine cards, of course we should have know the people of Memphis would get ones written in Chinese rather than English
 
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#103,070
#103,070
H
AshG said:
Nothing is ever totally safe. People can die drinking a glass of water.

The technology for this vaccine has been in progress since SARS-CoV-1.

If you want a reason to get the vaccine, you will find it. If you want a reason not to get the vaccine, you will find it. Be honest with yourself about your most desired outcome.
Click to expand...
Have you ever applied or participated in a clinical trial??
 
#103,071
#103,071
BigOrangeTrain said:
COVID has killed more. Yet the fact remains the vaccine can kill you and give you life long, severe complications. COVID also has a 96-99% survival rate (depending on age group). The vaccine isn’t that effective.

But it’s all a moot point. I suspect the American people will be forced to get the vaccine anyways eventually.
Click to expand...

Can you cite your evidence that the vax can give you “life long, severe complications”? Also, please reference the number of people actually killed by the vaccine. Thanks
 
#103,075
#103,075
kiddiedoc said:
From peer-reviewed UpToDate, the most current and respected medical information we have:

View attachment 386843
View attachment 386844
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The two major COVID treatment guidelines in the United states from the NIH and the IDSA reference both these studies and still recommend against use of ivermectin except in the context of a clinical trial.

Ivermectin | COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines

COVID-19 Guideline, Part 1: Treatment and Management

The IDSA goes into more detail on the limitations of both studies and why the evidence for ivermectin is poor.

Also I may misinterpret your reference to UptoDate but the authors of the COVID-19 management chapter in UptoDate recommend against use of ivermectin both for inpatient as well as outpatient use except in a clinical trial.

From UptoDate

Ivermectin – We do not use ivermectin for treatment of COVID-19 outside of clinical trials, as with other interventions that are not supported by high-quality data, consistent with recommendations from the WHO [3]. Data on ivermectin for COVID-19 are of low quality. In a meta-analysis of 16 trials evaluating ivermectin (only four included patients with severe disease), the effects on mortality, need for invasive mechanical ventilation, and duration of hospitalization were all very uncertain because of limitations in trial design and low numbers of events [46].

But hope that future studies do show that ivermectin works because we definitely need better therapies against this disease
 
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