Lesnar vs Vasquez (merged)

#26
#26
MikeDVol said:
Which fight? the one that Lesnar lost or the fight that didn't exist yet? Nice try tho :crazy:
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Get a grip. Mir got smashed the first time, and Brock bailed him out with a rookie mistake.

You can't come up with a guy who's truly more deserving than Lesnar, because Lesnar's kicked each of their asses.

Further, and more importantly, he fills arenas and generates pay per view dollars. It'd be irresponsible business to hold Lesnar back merely because of his lack of fights. The guy was legit from day one. Anybody with eyes can see that he's the best heavyweight in the world, and was a contender from the moment he stepped foot in the octagon.
 
#27
#27
:crazy:
Jaytrain5 said:
Get a grip. Mir got smashed the first time, and Brock bailed him out with a rookie mistake.

You can't come up with a guy who's truly more deserving than Lesnar, because Lesnar's kicked each of their asses.

Further, and more importantly, he fills arenas and generates pay per view dollars. It'd be irresponsible business to hold Lesnar back merely because of his lack of fights. The guy was legit from day one. Anybody with eyes can see that he's the best heavyweight in the world, and was a contender from the moment he stepped foot in the octagon.
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I just told you Mir was more deserving. He beat Brock no matter what kind of excuses you wanna give. And, like I said, you can keep Brock on the card but it is not fair to give him a title shot over someone who beat him (unless Mir had lost to Nogueira). In your logic Yankees automatically be in the world series because they have the most fans.
 
#28
#28
MikeDVol said:
:crazy:

I just told you Mir was more deserving. He beat Brock no matter what kind of excuses you wanna give. And, like I said, you can keep Brock on the card but it is not fair to give him a title shot over someone who beat him (unless Mir had lost to Nogueira). In your logic Yankees automatically be in the world series because they have the most fans.
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Mir, Nogueira, Couture, and Lesnar all participated in a mini-tournament to determine the heavyweight champ.

Mir beat Nog. Mir would've had a shot at Couture, but Lesnar eliminated Randy. Mir then had his chance to become the undisputed champ, and he got his ass kicked.

What don't you get about the process? What's unfair about it?
 
#29
#29
MikeDVol said:
:crazy:

I just told you Mir was more deserving. He beat Brock no matter what kind of excuses you wanna give. And, like I said, you can keep Brock on the card but it is not fair to give him a title shot over someone who beat him (unless Mir had lost to Nogueira). In your logic Yankees automatically be in the world series because they have the most fans.
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Good business isn't always "fair." It was a good decision to give Brock a shot, and it couldn't have paid off more.

Example:
- UFC 100 > 1.5 Mil Buys (Lesnar v. Mir)
- UFC 116 > 1.1 Mil Buys (Lesnar v. Carwin)
- UFC 91 > 1 Mil Buys (Lesnar v. Couture)
- UFC 119 > 275 K Buys (Mir v. Cro Cop)
- UFC 102 PPV Sales > 435 K Buys (Couture v. Noguiera)
 
#30
#30
Jaytrain5 said:
Mir, Nogueira, Couture, and Lesnar all participated in a mini-tournament to determine the heavyweight champ.

Mir beat Nog. Mir would've had a shot at Couture, but Lesnar eliminated Randy. Mir then had his chance to become the undisputed champ, and he got his ass kicked.

What don't you get about the process? What's unfair about it?
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Let me see if I can simplify this for you. Couture had the belt. Mir just beat Brock. Brock got to fight Couture. Mir didn't.
 
#31
#31
orangetanker11 said:
Good business isn't always "fair." It was a good decision to give Brock a shot, and it couldn't have paid off more.

Example:
- UFC 100 > 1.5 Mil Buys (Lesnar v. Mir)
- UFC 116 > 1.1 Mil Buys (Lesnar v. Carwin)
- UFC 91 > 1 Mil Buys (Lesnar v. Couture)
- UFC 119 > 275 K Buys (Mir v. Cro Cop)
- UFC 102 PPV Sales > 435 K Buys (Couture v. Noguiera)
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And like I said, you can still keep Lesnar on the card without giving him a title shot.
 
#32
#32
MikeDVol said:
Let me see if I can simplify this for you. Couture had the belt. Mir just beat Brock. Brock got to fight Couture. Mir didn't.
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Here's the deal. Couture was out with his contract dispute with the UFC for an extended amount of time. While that was going on, the fight was set up between Mir and Noguiera for the Interim Title. After the match was set, Couture ends his dispute with the UFC and then, the match with Lesnar is set. Lesnar beats Couture, Mir beats Minotauro, Lesnar beats Mir. Lesnar is the Unified Heavyweight Champ.

Mir got his shot at the title, albeit it wasn't from Couture, and was promptly beaten by Lesnar. Dominated might be a better word.
 
#34
#34
MikeDVol said:
Clearly you were talking about your own post being garbage. If you think Lesnar deserved a title shot after a loss and a win over Heath Herring you really should get yourself a clue. Saying that Brock deserved a title shot because he would bring in more fans is just stupid. I agree that Brock brings in fans but he would have still brought in fans fighting other guys. If anything it is embarrassing having a champ with only 4 fights one of which is a loss.
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Yeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaa....

jus go ahead and point me where I said Brock deserved it...

man...
 
#35
#35
The_Orange_Pearl said:
He was given a title shot with a 2-1 record. How is that deserving?

Shane Carwin was 11-0 before he got a title shot and Velasquez is 8-0.

You're crazy if you believe he deserved a title shot with that record let alone after three fights. When was the last time you saw someone get a title shot after three fights?

I'm not saying he isn't good. He is probably the best heavyweight there is right now. UFC didn't know that after three fights and a 2-1 record though. He was handed everything immediately because they gained a bunch of WWF fan boys.

Brock is earning it now, but he did nothing to earn a title shot. Nothing.
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This post is clearly saying Brock didn't deserve a title shot.

VOLinthaATL said:
This post is pretty much garbage. What did Dana do with James Toney? Dana, makes these guys that come over from other sports sink or swim by not giving them easy fights. Get a clue.
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Clearly James Toney didn't get a title shot. Maybe I misunderstood but the only other conclusion I'd figure you were getting at is that you think Brock deserved the title shot?
 
#41
#41
MikeDVol said:
Your point?
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Point being, Mir got was awarded a title shot before Lesnar. Then Lesnar proceeded to pummel him in the rematch. Lesnar wasn't given a shot before Mir. Mir's bout with Nog was already scheduled before Lesnar/Couture. Plus, Lesnar was supposed to fight Mark Coleman instead of Couture, but the Hammer pulled out do to injury, which resulted in the Couture bout.
 
#42
#42
orangetanker11 said:
Point being, Mir got was awarded a title shot before Lesnar. Then Lesnar proceeded to pummel him in the rematch. Lesnar wasn't given a shot before Mir. Mir's bout with Nog was already scheduled before Lesnar/Couture. Plus, Lesnar was supposed to fight Mark Coleman instead of Couture, but the Hammer pulled out do to injury, which resulted in the Couture bout.
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Interim is a BS belt.
 
#43
#43
Lesnar deserved a shot, he was the NCAA Div 1 Wresting champion. That's why he's a great UFC fighter, he goes to his strength, his size and wrestling.

I don't think Vasquez has much of a chance. His camp talks about cardio, what good is cardio when a 270 lb man has you pinned to the ground and is pounding you into submission?
 
#44
#44
oklavol said:
Lesnar deserved a shot, he was the NCAA Div 1 Wresting champion. That's why he's a great UFC fighter, he goes to his strength, his size and wrestling.

I don't think Vasquez has much of a chance. His camp talks about cardio, what good is cardio when a 270 lb man has you pinned to the ground and is pounding you into submission?
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? You do know Cain is a wrestler too
 
#45
#45
MikeDVol said:
? You do know Cain is a wrestler too
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Yes, he was never the NCAA Div 1 champ I think he was #5 in 2005 and #4 in 2006, and a junior college champion.

He just doesn't have the size and strength to match Lesnar IMO. He's 6'1 238 lbs vs Lesnar 6'3 265lbs who is the better wrestler.
 
#47
#47
VOLinthaATL said:
This post is pretty much garbage. What did Dana do with James Toney? Dana, makes these guys that come over from other sports sink or swim by not giving them easy fights. Get a clue.
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Are you kidding me?

James Toney didn't get a title shot and Couture wanted to fight him.

Your post is garbage if you actually think Lesnar fighting Couture for the title is the same thing as Couture voluntarily beating down a former boxer.
 
#48
#48
MikeDVol said:
This post is clearly saying Brock didn't deserve a title shot.


Clearly James Toney didn't get a title shot. Maybe I misunderstood but the only other conclusion I'd figure you were getting at is that you think Brock deserved the title shot?
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I missed this. Thanks for backing me up.

I don't have a problem with Brock being a championship since he won the fight and has won since.

I was just saying he should have to fight more than three fights(wasn't even undefeated) to get a title shot.

People are arguing he deserved it based on his fights since. If you go back to when he was three fights in, he didn't actually deserve a title shot based on his resume. Jmo.

Also... when was the last time someone got a title shot after three fights prior to Brock(2-1)?
 
#49
#49
The_Orange_Pearl said:
I don't have a problem with Brock being a championship since he won the fight and has won since.

I was just saying he should have to fight more than three fights(wasn't even undefeated) to get a title shot.

People are arguing he deserved it based on his fights since. If you go back to when he was three fights in, he didn't actually deserve a title shot based on his resume. Jmo.

Also... when was the last time someone got a title shot after three fights prior to Brock(2-1)?
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This is exactly what I've been trying to say.
 
#50
#50
The_Orange_Pearl said:
I missed this. Thanks for backing me up.

I don't have a problem with Brock being a championship since he won the fight and has won since.

I was just saying he should have to fight more than three fights(wasn't even undefeated) to get a title shot.

People are arguing he deserved it based on his fights since. If you go back to when he was three fights in, he didn't actually deserve a title shot based on his resume. Jmo.

Also... when was the last time someone got a title shot after three fights prior to Brock(2-1)?
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I would agree with this if we were talking about any other fighter, but not Brock. 2-1 doesn't really tell the story, does it? There were other factors at play than just the record or what was on paper.

1. Brock came within seconds of beating former UFC Heavyweight Champion Frank Mir, and probably should have if not for the controversial stoppage. He looked quick, and impressive in just his 2nd ever MMA fight.

2. Lesnar dominated veteran Heath Herring for 15 minutes. This was Lesnar's 3rd fight, Herring's 43rd.

3. Brock wasn't just some guy off the street who wanted to get into MMA. He had a legit wrestling background, and probably a more successful wrestling background than anyone in MMA. Look at all the successful champions in UFC history, and a good number of them have solid wrestling.

4. The UFC needed a face for the Heavyweight division, and a guy that could sell PPV's. (See earlier post in this thread)

Not to mention, Brock wasn't supposed to fight for the title in his 4th MMA fight. He was scheduled to fight Mark Coleman. Coleman pulled out of the fight, and as luck (or good business) would have it, Randy Couture ends his contract dispute and returns to the UFC. Mir vs Noguiera is already set. Who else do you put in there with Couture then? Lesnar made the most sense.
 
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