Let's be honest about personal responsibility

#51
#51
volinbham said:
The worst aspect of entitlements is the way they lull people into a dependency situation.
Click to expand...
That's right. Once personal pride and sense of responsibility are gone, it has to be easy to suckle at the teat.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#53
#53
lawgator1 said:
I am a HUGE fan of personal responsibility. But I am not unrealistic.

First, it is easy for a white guy making a good living, who comes from a nice middle class family, to bemoan the fact that so many others just can't seem to do what I have obviously done. Why can't they make the same personal sacrifices I had to make, such as studying in the dorms on a Friday night?
.
Click to expand...

even those who grew up wealthy statistically there is an excellent chance their parents grew up poor. this theory of multiple generations of wealth just doesn't pan out with reality. why do some people get out of it and others don't? hard work? intelligence? probably. but let's not act like the poor are dooming their children to poverty and there is no way out because that is garbage.
 
#54
#54
lumberjack4 said:
I'm actually for the abolishment of the Department of Education because education is like healthcare, a states issue per the 10th Amendment.
Click to expand...

Cartervol said:
Most people who feel a sense of entitlement are too lazy to work for it. It's the easy way out, blame someone else for your shortcomings. Too bad we have a government who now caters to this way of thinking.
Click to expand...


I don't think there is anything I could say which would persuade people who think the way you do that there might be some merit to any federal program that isn's about blowing something up.
 
#55
#55
My dad started his own business, and when I was a kid, we lived in a small camper for pretty much my whole kindergarten year. Through HARD WORK and DETERMINATION for a better life he now operates a very successful business. Never once did he ask for a handout from the government, nor felt that he needed one.
 
#56
#56
droski said:
even those who grew up wealthy statistically there is an excellent chance their parents grew up poor. this theory of multiple generations of wealth just doesn't pan out with reality. why do some people get out of it and others don't? hard work? intelligence? probably. but let's not act like the poor are dooming their children to poverty and there is no way out because that is garbage.
Click to expand...


Not every single one from a middle class family succeeds, and not every one from a poor family fails.

But you cannot seriously be arguing that your starting point in life doesn't give you a leg up, or down, as the case may be.

Everyone has personal stories of people they know that screwed up a good shot or did really well considering adverse circumstances. But those are individual cases. If yuou look at the overall picture, there is no way on Earth anyone can claim that such background is irrelevant.

But of course then out trot the Cartervols types and their "inherently lazy" critique... Just so ignorant, and I maintain, intentionally so.
 
#57
#57
lawgator1 said:
I don't think there is anything I could say which would persuade people who think the way you do that there might be some merit to any federal program that isn's about blowing something up.
Click to expand...

roads, education, police, fire. anything else is a waste of money
 
#59
#59
lawgator1 said:
I don't think there is anything I could say which would persuade people who think the way you do that there might be some merit to any federal program that isn's about blowing something up.
Click to expand...

I don't think you'll find very many who are against federal programs that lend a hand up for those in need. What they do not agree with is subsidizing someones entire life because they are content with what they get for nothing on the taxpayers dime.
 
#60
#60
lawgator1 said:
Not every single one from a middle class family succeeds, and not every one from a poor family fails.

But you cannot seriously be arguing that your starting point in life doesn't give you a leg up, or down, as the case may be.

Everyone has personal stories of people they know that screwed up a good shot or did really well considering adverse circumstances. But those are individual cases. If yuou look at the overall picture, there is no way on Earth anyone can claim that such background is irrelevant.

But of course then out trot the Cartervols types and their "inherently lazy" critique... Just so ignorant, and I maintain, intentionally so.
Click to expand...

it's the core family values that matter (and i'm not talking about religion here), not income. there is a culture of laziness and expectations of gov't taking care of you that exists today that unquestionably did not exist 50 years ago among the poor. the common denominator in successful people i know is not growing up wealthy. it's growing up in a stable environment with parents who instilled personal responsibility. throwing money at the probrem doesn't help this. in actuality it hurts the problem.
 
#61
#61
KB5252 said:
I don't think you'll find very many who are against federal programs that lend a hand up for those in need. What they do not agree with is subsidizing someones entire life because they are content with what they get for nothing on the taxpayers dime.
Click to expand...

Agreed, someone needs help, and they are making the effort to get back on their feet, then they deserve the help. If they want the government and everyone else to bare the load, then let them live in a cardboard box
 
#62
#62
lawgator1 said:
Not every single one from a middle class family succeeds, and not every one from a poor family fails.

But you cannot seriously be arguing that your starting point in life doesn't give you a leg up, or down, as the case may be.

Everyone has personal stories of people they know that screwed up a good shot or did really well considering adverse circumstances. But those are individual cases. If yuou look at the overall picture, there is no way on Earth anyone can claim that such background is irrelevant.

But of course then out trot the Cartervols types and their "inherently lazy" critique... Just so ignorant, and I maintain, intentionally so.
Click to expand...

So what on earth makes you think that government intervention is going to change the disparity in environmental backgrounds?

You can discount personal responsibility all you'd like, but we bit know that there are people who would choose governmental largesse as a lifestyle and those who would prefer to live in dumpster to avoid it. That isn't going to change, no matter how long you pretend environment ruins people. Human nature isn't new and isn't changing. Piss away your own money fighting the windmills ad stop arguing to piss away mine.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#63
#63
You can't have entitlements without changing the level of dependence in the culture.

My dad was out of work for 2 weeks due to a strike where he worked. He and his buddy got a job caddying until regular work resumed. (1950s)

Now we see people unemployed who wait for the right job and live off the abundant federal and state programs.

Current unemployment benefits stretch to 99 weeks I believe - almost 2 years! Economists recognize that the continued expansion of unemployment benefits are keeping the unemployment rate high.
 
#64
#64
volinbham said:
You can't have entitlements without changing the level of dependence in the culture.

My dad was out of work for 2 weeks due to a strike where he worked. He and his buddy got a job caddying until regular work resumed.

Now we see people unemployed who wait for the right job and live off the abundant federal and state programs.
Click to expand...

my first teaching year i got axed due to the budget cuts that came down that year and consolidation of programs. I took a job working at Rite Aid as a loss prevention agent for neary a year
 
#65
#65
volinbham said:
Now we see people unemployed who wait for the right job and live off the abundant federal and state programs.

Current unemployment benefits stretch to 99 weeks I believe - almost 2 years! Economists recognize that the continued expansion of unemployment benefits are keeping the unemployment rate high.
Click to expand...

Yup the extension of unemployment unquestionably has kept the unemployment rate higher. in economically inefficient to have people waiting for the economy to turn when in reality they need to be changing professions. i see it in my own industry. i consistantly get calls from unemployed traders and analysts. many who have no higher education and have a weak at best professional background. the chances of them getting employed when you can pick from people wiht direct experience is zero.
 
#66
#66
BigPapaVol said:
So what on earth makes you think that government intervention is going to change the disparity in environmental backgrounds?

You can discount personal responsibility all you'd like, but we bit know that there are people who would choose governmental largesse as a lifestyle and those who would prefer to live in dumpster to avoid it. That isn't going to change, no matter how long you pretend environment ruins people. Human nature isn't new and isn't changing. Piss away your own money fighting the windmills ad stop arguing to piss away mine.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

I completely agree that we have way too many people who would take that approach to life. I happen to believe a lot of that has to do with education issues, but in the end I do wish that we spent more money dealing with that problem so as not to allow the cycle to repeat as opposed to mere continuation of minimal subsistence that guarantees more demand for government handouts as time wears on.




volinbham said:
You can't have entitlements without changing the level of dependence in the culture.

My dad was out of work for 2 weeks due to a strike where he worked. He and his buddy got a job caddying until regular work resumed. (1950s)

Now we see people unemployed who wait for the right job and live off the abundant federal and state programs.

Current unemployment benefits stretch to 99 weeks I believe - almost 2 years! Economists recognize that the continued expansion of unemployment benefits are keeping the unemployment rate high.
Click to expand...


I'll violate my own caution about using singular examples. I have a friend who has been on unemployment for more than two years. Looks for work only very occassionally at this point (he's in banking, in Florida, which is right now sort of pointless). He's a friend, but I consider him to be a bit of a scoundrel in this regard.


GASOUTHERNVOL said:
my first teaching year i got axed due to the budget cuts that came down that year and consolidation of programs. I took a job working at Rite Aid as a loss prevention agent for neary a year
Click to expand...


You do what you got to do.
 
#67
#67
lawgator1 said:
I completely agree that we have way too many people who would take that approach to life. I happen to believe a lot of that has to do with education issues, but in the end I do wish that we spent more money dealing with that problem so as not to allow the cycle to repeat as opposed to mere continuation of minimal subsistence that guarantees more demand for government handouts as time wears on.







I'll violate my own caution about using singular examples. I have a friend who has been on unemployment for more than two years. Looks for work only very occassionally at this point (he's in banking, in Florida, which is right now sort of pointless). He's a friend, but I consider him to be a bit of a scoundrel in this regard.





You do what you got to do.
Click to expand...

exactly, i didnt ask someone else to pick up my tab.
 
#69
#69
it probably doesn't matter to the majority of these people that "need" to be insured right now either.
 
#71
#71
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
nope. All that mattered was being able to pay my bills and stay above water
Click to expand...


Well, good thing you didn't have any serious medical problems during that period of time. Most on here, if you had that misfortune, would just as soon you go off quietly and not bother us.
 
#73
#73
the point is that i didnt sit around with my hand out expecting money from the government to help me, i got out there and did what needed to be done. Heck, i would have taken a job at mcdonalds as long as i had a job and was able to make some money
 
#74
#74
lawgator1 said:
Well, good thing you didn't have any serious medical problems during that period of time. Most on here, if you had that misfortune, would just as soon you go off quietly and not bother us.
Click to expand...

Yes. His health isn't my business, good or bad. It's his business and his issue.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#75
#75
lawgator1 said:
I don't think there is anything I could say which would persuade people who think the way you do that there might be some merit to any federal program that isn's about blowing something up.
Click to expand...

I assume you are referring to military spending. Seeing as I work with the DoD I get a front row seat into the mountains of waste in our defense budget. I'm all for cutting our military spending by streamlining programs and eliminating duplication and waste. My favorite time of the year around here is the months of July and August where programs have X amount of funding they have not spent, so they go around buying $300 hammers and other crap they don't need just so their program's budget doesn't get reduced the next fiscal year.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top