Let's compare Jesus and Muhammed (and debate homosexuality) (and Tombstone).

[Tenacious D]

I've read the Bible from cover to cover. One of my main wonders is why none of the characters, despite sometimes having a direct line to the all mighty, didn't seem to know anything outside of their immediate surroundings in the middle east. I don't know, kind of hurts the credibility that any of it is true.

All true. I have no idea as to the reason for this, but some guesses:

1. If such a "direct-line" relationship was possible and existed, perhaps other things were inconsequential to them (or anyone in that spiritual / physical place, I suppose), in comparison.

2. Maybe some or even significant interest in those other things existed or pervaded their lives, but was just left unmentioned in the (canonized) text?

3. This inability or lack of desire to see past one's own neighborhood may be just as prevalent today as it was then - the statistic that less than 30% of Americans have passports leaps to mind (iirc).
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[therealUT]

Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered brings shame upon his head. But any woman who prays or prophesies with he head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved. For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil.

A man, on the other hand, should not cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; nor was man created for woman, but woman for man; for this reason a woman should have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels.

...

As in all the churches of the holy ones, women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. But if they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church.

Paul, simultaneously reinforcing the Mosaic Law and denigrating women.

 

[rjd970]

All true. I have no idea as to the reason for this, but some guesses:

1. If such a "direct-line" relationship was possible and existed, perhaps other things were inconsequential to them (or anyone in that spiritual / physical place, I suppose), in comparison.

2. Maybe some or even significant interest in those other things existed or pervaded their lives, but was just left unmentioned in the (canonized) text?

3. This inability or lack of desire to see past one's own neighborhood may be just as prevalent today as it was then - the statistic that less than 30% of Americans have passports leaps to mind (iirc).
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...or the simple explanation is they created God based on their own image and surroundings instead of the other way around.

 

[gsvol]

Look up "oral history" and get back to us.

There you go, trying to debate homosexuality again!

Anyone ever talked to you about the Book of Mormon? Seems you might enjoy it.

I've read it, have you read the book of the Bahai'i?

I said the Roman world. The area of Israel had known ink even longer had had access to even more formulas. And was part of the Roman World. Words have meaning.

The Romans renamed Israel, Palestine in honor of the Philistines, the traditional enemy of the Jews, to dishonor the Israelites.

There is no such group as Palestinians, these are Arabs who have migrated to Israel, most of whom did so to prevent the reestablisment of the nation of Israel.

No. I'm English. I write in English, Spanish, and French. Hebrews write in Hebrew and Armaic. Hebrews in Greece write in Hebrew, Armaic, and Greek.

What does language have to do with anything, by the way? Why wouldn't they write it down in pictographs if that is what they knew? And don't claim they were illiterate, they weren't.

Muhammed was illeterate!

Are you familiar with the Arabic word tahrif?

Tahrif is the islamic doctrine that is used to cast doubt upon Christian teachings, it means alteration.

Moslem sfalsly claim the Christian texts have been misinterpreted in order to further make the claim that islam is the only true religion.




To mg1968:

You asked what about Catholic priests covering up pederasty.

While this has happened, covering up misdeeds is a far cry from condoning such publicly and then telling the committers of rape crimes that it is good in that it promotes islam, and if you pray while doing so and wash your hands afterwards then that is a good deed.

Anyway I'm not Catholic.

 

[therealUT]

Muhammed was illeterate!

Apparently, he is not the only one...

 

[gsvol]

Skepticism is the highest form of civilization.

Quite a difference between a skeptic and a scoffer.

And those who misrepresent the facts are liars.

 

[gsvol]

Apparently, he is not the only one...

If you are trying to say that the vast majority of the early followers of Muhammed could neither read nor write, you would be correct.

A rarity for you.

Their two most notable aspects were greed and bloodthirstiness rather than intellectual acumen.

ps; being a sloppy typer doesn't mean all that much, I only took typing because there were lots of girls in that class. :loco:

 

[therealUT]

If you are trying to say that the vast majority of the early followers of Muhammed could neither read nor write, you would be correct.

A rarity for you.

Their two most notable aspects were greed and bloodthirstiness rather than intellectual acumen.

ps; being a sloppy typer doesn't mean all that much, I only took typing because there were lots of girls in that class. :loco:

Sounds almost identical to the vast majority of early Jews...

 

[gsvol]

Sounds almost identical to the vast majority of early Jews...

But NOT at all like the early Christians.

You say; 'almost identical' and I beg to differ, although there were similarities, ealy Hebrews were NOT caravan robbers as were the muhammedens, as a matter of fact the Jews were forbidden to take items from those they defeated but the taking of booty was one of the driving forces of moslem conflict early on and still true to this day.

Abraham paid a tythe to Melchisedek, Muhammed was so arrogant as to place himself above everyone, in the heirachy of islam when one captures any goods then part of that is paid to those who have greater statue in the political heirarchy.

Then those who aren't moslems, provided they are afforded the right to live at all, must pay an exorbitant tax.

 

[therealUT]

But NOT at all like the early Christians.

Right, they had to wait a couple hundred years until they had enough power to kill people.

You say; 'almost identical' and I beg to differ, although there were similarities, ealy Hebrews were NOT caravan robbers as were the muhammedens, as a matter of fact the Jews were forbidden to take items from those they defeated but the taking of booty was one of the driving forces of moslem conflict early on and still true to this day.

Read the Bible again. Hebrews routinely profited off their genocidal rages.

Abraham paid a tythe to Melchisedek, Muhammed was so arrogant as to place himself above everyone, in the heirachy of islam when one captures any goods then part of that is paid to those who have greater statue in the political heirarchy.

Abraham was not a Jew.

Then those who aren't moslems, provided they are afforded the right to live at all, must pay an exorbitant tax.

According to the Koran, only those who try to suppress Islam and/or oppress Muslims.

 

[gsvol]

moses disobeyed god?

Yes, that is why Moses wasn't permitted to enter the Promised Land.

 

[wounded mullet]

 

[gsvol]

Right, they had to wait a couple hundred years until they had enough power to kill people.

So when did Christians first go on any genocidal rampage as the moslems did?

Read the Bible again. Hebrews routinely profited off their genocidal rages.

They were also put to death for taking and hiding profit.

Abraham was not a Jew.

So who then do you define as a Jew?

According to the Koran, only those who try to suppress Islam and/or oppress Muslims.

And whatever stands in the way of establishing a worldwide caliphate in order to enact universal sharia is suppressing islam and opressing moslems.

How were the people of Paris or Vienna suppressing or opressing moslems?

Sorry if I'm confused here. But if Christianity is the one true faith, then there is simply no way you can stomach Judaism continuing to be practiced.

That's not how Christianity works, the Word is presented to the individual, whether he practices Judaism or anthing else, it is then up to that individual to accept or reject the message, that is the right of the individual.

 

[therealUT]

So when did Christians first go on any genocidal rampage as the moslems did?

Christians in Europe began converting by the sword prior to the existence of Islam. Christians killing "infidels" reached its peak during the counter-reformation.

They were also put to death for taking and hiding profit.

It would do well for you to read the Book of Joshua. Easily one of the most bloodthirsty tales in the whole of literature. It should explain all you need to know.

So who then do you define as a Jew?

One whose lineage stems from the Tribe of Judah and/or subscribes to the Mosaic Law and the Jewish Scriptures without also believing in the divinity of Christ.

Abraham, surprisingly, fits absolutely none of those (neither to the Israelites who fled from Egypt).

And whatever stands in the way of establishing a worldwide caliphate in order to enact universal sharia is suppressing islam and opressing moslems.

False.

How were the people of Paris or Vienna suppressing or opressing moslems?

So, any Empire that has a dominant Muslim majority, is then always waging religious warfare and/or jihad; yet, those Empire's and States that have Christian majorities are simply waging political and nationalistic wars?

That's not how Christianity works, the Word is presented to the individual, whether he practices Judaism or anthing else, it is then up to that individual to accept or reject the message, that is the right of the individual.

Does not sound like much of a right...

 

[gsvol]

Christians in Europe began converting by the sword prior to the existence of Islam. Christians killing "infidels" reached its peak during the counter-reformation.

What references say that Christians of Europe were converting by the sword before islam came along?

It would do well for you to read the Book of Joshua. Easily one of the most bloodthirsty tales in the whole of literature. It should explain all you need to know.

I've read it more than once. No doubt it was a time of war but nothing like as bloodthirsty in length of time, geographical scope and numbers slain and taken as slaves compared to the long history of islam.

One whose lineage stems from the Tribe of Judah and/or subscribes to the Mosaic Law and the Jewish Scriptures without also believing in the divinity of Christ.

Abraham, surprisingly, fits absolutely none of those (neither to the Israelites who fled from Egypt).

Actually even othodox Jews believe in the divinity of Christ, they just don't believe Jesus is/was Christ.

So a Hebrew isn't a Jew unless he is of the tribe of Judah?

How about the 13th tribe, are they Jews also?

False.

That is what al-Qaeda, the muslim brotherhood and several other islamic organizations say is true and that is what the Qu'ran teaches.

So, any Empire that has a dominant Muslim majority, is then always waging religious warfare and/or jihad; yet, those Empire's and States that have Christian majorities are simply waging political and nationalistic wars?

Look at what is going on in Africa, it is the moslems who are committing genocides in the name of islamic jihad.

Look at what happened in the early part of the twentieth century in India.

Neither of those situations have to do with and empire or nation states, they have to do with militant moslems creating mahem to further islam.

When you say jihad means to clense one's community, you must realize that means to clense it of all non-moslems.

Does not sound like much of a right...

It is far better than the moslem alternative to say the least.

 

[VOLatile]

ITT we compare which religion has killed more and then deem the lesser quantity as the better religion. Seems intelligent to me.
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[therealUT]

What references say that Christians of Europe were converting by the sword before islam came along?

Theodocius.

I've read it more than once. No doubt it was a time of war but nothing like as bloodthirsty in length of time, geographical scope and numbers slain and taken as slaves compared to the long history of islam.

Read it again, then. Or, if you would rather, I will post the entire text of Joshua in a new thread.

Actually even othodox Jews believe in the divinity of Christ, they just don't believe Jesus is/was Christ.

You might want to look up the definition of "divine".

Some Jews see Jesus as a prophet; many do not. The Koran, however, states that Isa is the Messiah (just not God).

So a Hebrew isn't a Jew unless he is of the tribe of Judah?

How about the 13th tribe, are they Jews also?

Nope. They were the 13th tribe of Israel; not the 13th tribe of the Jews.

That is what al-Qaeda, the muslim brotherhood and several other islamic organizations say is true and that is what the Qu'ran teaches.

Several Christian organization teach some very surprising things about Christianity. Take some time and watch Jesus Camp.

Look at what is going on in Africa, it is the moslems who are committing genocides in the name of islamic jihad.

This is true as long as you are only looking at one side of the stories.

Look at what happened in the early part of the twentieth century in India.

Neither of those situations have to do with and empire or nation states, they have to do with militant moslems creating mahem to further islam.

When you say jihad means to clense one's community, you must realize that means to clense it of all non-moslems.

You are having a very tough time with spelling today. I will trust your history when you can demonstrate that you are educated and intelligent enough to spell simple words correctly.

It is far better than the moslem alternative to say the least.

No, it is not.

 

[gsvol]

Theodocius.

The practice wasn't very widespread before Charlemagne and that was after encountering islamic forces.

Who do you say Theodocius converted by the sword, in short?

If the Roman Empire carried over some of it's previous pagan practises and applied them to Christianity that is stall a far cry form the practises of islam which carries only until this very day.

Read it again, then. Or, if you would rather, I will post the entire text of Joshua in a new thread.

Feel free, however you are missing the point entirely.

You might want to look up the definition of "divine".

Some Jews see Jesus as a prophet; many do not. The Koran, however, states that Isa is the Messiah (just not God).

That isn't what islam teaches.

Islam teahes that Jesus was only a prophet, he wasn't the Son of God, he wasn't crucified or resurrected.

Islam teaches that each prophet came for his time but muhammed is the only prophet for all time.

According to islam the four greatest prophets were Moses, David, Jesus and muhammed and the muhammed is the 'seal of the prophets.

They teach that each produced a book;
Moses - Tawrat or Torah,
David - Zabur or Psalms,
Jesus - Injil or Gospel
muhammed - Qur'an and of the four only the qur'ran hasn't been corrupted.

Nope. They were the 13th tribe of Israel; not the 13th tribe of the Jews.

I was referring to the Khazzar tribe, is that what you are talking about?

Several Christian organization teach some very surprising things about Christianity. Take some time and watch Jesus Camp.

Who puts that out?

You can surf the net and find videos of moslems beheading Christian missionaries.

This is true as long as you are only looking at one side of the stories.

So which Christian groups are slaughtering moslems and in which countires???

You are having a very tough time with spelling today. I will trust your history when you can demonstrate that you are educated and intelligent enough to spell simple words correctly.

You have spell check, I'm sure everyone is impressed.

You can parrot your ignorance all you want but all you have to do is make even a feelbe attempt of the study the history of islam in India to see what has gone on.

Ghandi said if his sister was to be raped by a moslem he hoped she would comply willingly, so much for the demigod Ghandi.

No, it is not.

I would agree to disagree with you on this but since you are so indesposed to agree to disagree, then;

 

[therealUT]

Celebrate children telling people to **** off...how very "Christian' of you, GS.

You know what though...for your sake, I hope that Christianity is true. I would love to watch your sorry a** burn in hell.

 

[Sabanocchio]

Celebrate children telling people to **** off...how very "Christian' of you, GS.

You know what though...for your sake, I hope that Christianity is true. I would love to watch your sorry a** burn in hell.

This post is awesome.

 

[gsvol]

ITT we compare which religion has killed more and then deem the lesser quantity as the better religion. Seems intelligent to me.
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Or we could do the really intelligent thing and read the texts of the Koran and the Gospel and see which condones killing in the name of their God.

But using your criteria, islam would be by far the worst 'religion' ever on Earth, surpassing even atheistic socialism which is a religion in itself.

 

[therealUT]

The following is part of the Gospels, is it not?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be.

The "Word" is, according to John, Jesus, is it not? So, all of God's actions throughout the Old Testament would be, according to the Gospel of John, relevant to the conversation, correct?

Or, are you going to tell me that this is no place for logical deductions and inferences?

Of course, I know your answer, so I will just save the time: you are a piece of ****.

 

[Tenacious D]

Celebrate children telling people to **** off...how very "Christian' of you, GS.

You know what though...for your sake, I hope that Christianity is true. I would love to watch your sorry a** burn in hell.

Perhaps GS isn't the best group spokesperson, believers.

Your silence only further endorses his bastardization of what many of you may otherwise purport to believe as being true.
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[VOLatile]

Or we could do the really intelligent thing and read the texts of the Koran and the Gospel and see which condones killing in the name of their God.

But using your criteria, islam would be by far the worst 'religion' ever on Earth, surpassing even atheistic socialism which is a religion in itself.

Why do you put religion in quotations after Islam, but not after atheism? And do tell me how you have come to believe that "atheistic socialism," whatever that is, is a terrible religion and why you believe it's a religion in the same sense as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, Sihkism, Zoroastrianism, Rastafarianism, etc?

 

[volinbham]

My boss is gay and a Muslim...