Let's compare Jesus and Muhammed (and debate homosexuality) (and Tombstone).

#1,579
#1,579
Gramps said:
One is filled with the Holy Spirit at the time of regeneration. Baptism is a testimony that regeneration has taken place. .
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This is what I believe. Baptism is an outward proclamation that one has accepted Christ, to me. No amount of water has ever 'saved' anyone. I don't pretend that I know everything. I know I never will. I have faith. That is vital, imo. I don't pressure anyone. I try (I fail a lot) to live so others can see that faith in me. If anyone wishes to privately discuss this PM me. I promise I will not pressure. Each person must make their own decisions. It would be an honor to speak to others about this. I will not ridicule. That's pointless. All I ask is that if anyone takes me up on my offer, please afford me the same respect for my beliefs that I will give you.
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#1,580
#1,580
T-TownVol said:
John 3:5-16
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Easily the most exclusive view of salvation and a perverse insight into a cruel God who would choose to create billions of people that will ultimately never have the chance to do anything but spend an eternal afterlife in suffering and misery.
 
#1,582
#1,582
T-TownVol said:
Did it take you an hour to Google that up or were you eating dinner? Weak Sauce either way.
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I came in from having a drink and some shrimp on the porch. I looked up the passage in the Bible I keep next to my chair. I stand by what I said. Any notion of privileged access to salvation is an implicit statement that the Trinitarian God would rather choose to punish the vast majority of humanity simply for being ignorant of his existence than offer them salvation based upon their works.
 
#1,583
#1,583
What in the world makes simple belief in Jesus "privileged". Sometimes keeping it simple is the way to go.
We recieve the HS the moment we believe in Christ. Baptism has nothing to do with it.
 
#1,584
#1,584
therealUT said:
Easily the most exclusive view of salvation and a perverse insight into a cruel God who would choose to create billions of people that will ultimately never have the chance to do anything but spend an eternal afterlife in suffering and misery.
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My personal view is that God will not hold those that have never heard his message as responsible as those that have heard.

I have been taught about the age of accountability. It comes earlier for some and later for others and to some never. I don't believe in child baptism for salvation. As a dedication to raise the child in church, that's ok. Salvation comes with understanding and accepting. A child, mentally incapable person, or someone who never hears the message will not be held responsible for what they didn't hear or couldn't understand. Again, that's my undestanding.
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#1,586
#1,586
JayVols said:
My personal view is that God will not hold those that have never heard his message as responsible as those that have heard.

I have been taught about the age of accountability. It comes earlier for some and later for others and to some never. I don't believe in child baptism for salvation. As a dedication to raise the child in church, that's ok. Salvation comes with understanding and accepting. A child, mentally incapable person, or someone who never hears the message will not be held responsible for what they didn't hear or couldn't understand. Again, that's my undestanding.
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I can always count on prudent and reasonable responses from you, Jay. I would agree with this. If there is a personal God, I can only see one that would ultimately judge persons according to their deeds and their actions towards other humans and nature.
 
#1,587
#1,587
therealUT said:
In your opinion (or according to your creed), do non-Christians go to Heaven?
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People that hear the gospel and choose to not believe will not go to heaven. Whether or not the "unchurched" go to Heaven is beyond me.
 
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#1,589
#1,589
That Jesus came to earth and died and rose from the grave so that we can be saved. All you have to do is believe in him to be saved.
If Jesus did not rise from the grave, my faith is in vain.
 
#1,590
#1,590
T-TownVol said:
That Jesus came to earth and died and rose from the grave so that we can be saved. All you have to do is believe in him to be saved.
If Jesus did not rise from the grave, my faith is in vain.
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Unfortunately for the Christians in here, our faith and convictions are viewed as vanity from the other side.
 
#1,591
#1,591
T-TownVol said:
That Jesus came to earth and died and rose from the grave so that we can be saved. All you have to do is believe in him to be saved.
If Jesus did not rise from the grave, my faith is in vain.
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I am well versed Christian stories and theology; I am wondering what you believe accounts for "hearing the gospel". Is it simply hearing part of it once? Is it having listened to the entirety of the four gospels? Is it listening to those gospels and hearing a Christian preacher expound upon the meaning?
 
#1,592
#1,592
therealUT said:
I can always count on prudent and reasonable responses from you, Jay. I would agree with this. If there is a personal God, I can only see one that would ultimately judge persons according to their deeds and their actions towards other humans and nature.
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To get outside the box for a moment.

Your deeds and actions do have their place in the discussion, no one is refuting that. At least not that I am aware of.

If there is (which I do believe) a personal God. Why would he not want you to proclaim that he is in fact God? And if he did, why would one have a problem doing that and producing their good deeds and actions from that?
 
#1,593
#1,593
Thank goodness we will not be held responsible for their non belief. We are doing our job. Good Night all.
God Bless
 
#1,594
#1,594
BeecherVol said:
If there is (which I do believe) a personal God. Why would he not want you to proclaim that he is in fact God? And if he did, why would one have a problem doing that and producing their good deeds and actions from that?
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I will respond by asking questions of my own. If the Christian God did indeed exist, why would an all-powerful God need persons to proclaim his existence and his power, and worship him? Why would an all-powerful being need anything? Seems like a very arbitrary, and ultimately meaningless, measure of judgment.
 
#1,595
#1,595
BeecherVol said:
To get outside the box for a moment.

Your deeds and actions do have their place in the discussion, no one is refuting that. At least not that I am aware of.

If there is (which I do believe) a personal God. Why would he not want you to proclaim that he is in fact God? And if he did, why would one have a problem doing that and producing their good deeds and actions from that?
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Trut knows that, he is trolling.
 
#1,596
#1,596
therealUT said:
I can always count on prudent and reasonable responses from you, Jay. I would agree with this. If there is a personal God, I can only see one that would ultimately judge persons according to their deeds and their actions towards other humans and nature.
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I have more than my share of not so proud moments, man. Lol

All I know is that in my heart, I know the God I serve is a God of love and mercy. Having said that, I do believe that we all will have to answer for our actions/decisions. I don't believe God will be sitting with a sick twisted smile on his face when he renders his fair judgement. The best way I can imagine of what it would be like is similar to discipling one's child. Nothing my 2 precious daughters could ever do would make me stop loving them. They are wonderful liitle girls, but they mess up. It is my job as a parent to discipline them. I take no joy in doing so. It breaks my heart. I know now what my parents meant when they said 'this is going to hurt me more than it will you.' I would be irresponsible to not help teach them right from wrong, but I will NEVER stop loving or caring for them. I believe that we ALL are God's children, and that He takes no pleasure or has any joy when we mess up as well.
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#1,597
#1,597
therealUT said:
I will respond by asking questions of my own. If the Christian God did indeed exist, why would an all-powerful God need persons to proclaim his existence and his power, and worship him? Why would an all-powerful being need anything? Seems like a very arbitrary, and ultimately meaningless, measure of judgment.
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If God had wanted mindless robots, He could have created that. We have free will to choose, robots do not. That's what makes us special to Him.

Let me try to explain it this way. It is more real and special when someone chooses to love us and decide to share their lives with us by choice rather than an arranged marriage. It is genuine, pure not coerced or forced. If that makes any sense.
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#1,598
#1,598
therealUT said:
I will respond by asking questions of my own. If the Christian God did indeed exist, why would an all-powerful God need persons to proclaim his existence and his power, and worship him? Why would an all-powerful being need anything? Seems like a very arbitrary, and ultimately meaningless, measure of judgment.
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If he is God over all that we know, wouldn't your questions be irrelevant if he asks for you to acknowledge him for who he is?
 
#1,599
#1,599
JayVols said:
If God had wanted mindless robots, He could have created that. We have free will to choose, robots do not. That's what makes us special to Him.

Let me try to explain it this way. It is more real and special when someone chooses to love us and decide to share their lives with us by choice rather than an arranged marriage. It is genuine, pure not coerced or forced. If that makes any sense.
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Solid post. Well put.

There are times I wished my kids and wife were robots, bit it ain't in the cards.:)
 
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