Let's compare Jesus and Muhammed (and debate homosexuality) (and Tombstone).

#1,676
#1,676
Gramps said:
This would be a good subject to discuss, if we can be respecful of others beliefs and discuss this civilly.

This can be a very sensitive subject, but could be a learning experience if handled in correct way.

Thoughts?
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Has to do with the fact that a Catholic mass is all about the eucharist because once it is blessed, it is truly the body and blood of Christ, while a non-catholic mass is focused on the preacher and eucharist is "like" the body and blood of Christ.
 
#1,677
#1,677
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Has to do with the fact that a Catholic mass is all about the eucharist because once it is blessed, it is truly the body and blood of Christ, while a non-catholic mass is focused on the preacher and eucharist is "like" the body and blood of Christ.
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My girlfriend is Catholic - took me to my first catholic mass. I noticed most people don't even partake in the "wine" anymore for health reasons. I'm guessing this was caused by swine flu or bird flu.
 
#1,678
#1,678
KiffinKiller said:
My girlfriend is Catholic - took me to my first catholic mass. I noticed most people don't even partake in the "wine" anymore for health reasons. I'm guessing this was caused by swine flu or bird flu.
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Many Catholics have not partaken of the wine for a long time; it is not required to take both species, one suffices.
 
#1,679
#1,679
KiffinKiller said:
My girlfriend is Catholic - took me to my first catholic mass. I noticed most people don't even partake in the "wine" anymore for health reasons. I'm guessing this was caused by swine flu or bird flu.
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Not really health reasons. People take the bread or both. Usually its out of habbit that people only take the bread and take both on special occasions
 
#1,680
#1,680
therealUT said:
It would be worth discussing if those in the discussion were well-read in Catholic Canon, Doctrine, and Dogma, as well as various Protestant (and Baptist, since they are apparently not Protestant) Denomination Canon and Doctrine; unfortunately, it seems many who speak against Catholicism and/or wish to separate themselves as far from Catholicism as is possible, simply argue from the point of hearsay and rumor, instead of actually taking issue with what is actual Catholic practice and belief.

It is not as if Catholic Doctrine is somehow cryptic and/or esoteric. It is published and widely available in an easy to use desk-reference style annal.
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Yeah, I only have a passing knowledge of Catholic practices. I wouldn't be presenting an argument from a very informed position. My biggest issue with Catholic practice from history was the practice of indulgences. I do not know how pervasive this practice was, but I know it was practiced to some degree. I would disagree with 'buying' forgiveness in any religion.

I have been to a Catholic Mass. It included a baptism of my baby cousin. My main gripe was that they couldn't decide if they wanted to sit, stand, or kneel. It was a workout.:)
 
#1,681
#1,681
JayVols said:
Yeah, I only have a passing knowledge of Catholic practices. I wouldn't be presenting an argument from a very informed position. My biggest issue with Catholic practice from history was the practice of indulgences. I do not know how pervasive this practice was, but I know it was practiced to some degree. I would disagree with 'buying' forgiveness in any religion.

I have been to a Catholic Mass. It included a baptism of my baby cousin. My main gripe was that they couldn't decide if they wanted to sit, stand, or kneel. It was a workout.:)
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Indulgences was a power move in the middle ages. It's easy to keep people in line when they're afraid of burning in hell for eternity. Fortunately, the church has evolved a little since then.
 
#1,682
#1,682
KiffinKiller said:
Indulgences was a power move in the middle ages. It's easy to keep people in line when they're afraid of burning in hell for eternity. Fortunately, the church has evolved a little since then.
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Yeah, I thought that was during the Middle Ages and the times of 'The Holy Roman Emperor- Defender of the Faith' type deal. I just didn't want to misspeak. I know that it was abandoned long ago. There are practices and eras in most all faiths that are not their proudest moments.:good!:
 
#1,683
#1,683
KiffinKiller said:
Indulgences was a power move in the middle ages. It's easy to keep people in line when they're afraid of burning in hell for eternity. Fortunately, the church has evolved a little since then.
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Are Indulgrences still part of the practice in CC ?
 
#1,684
#1,684
KiffinKiller said:
Indulgences was a power move in the middle ages.
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True to an extent. The practice of selling indulgences is rooted in Jewish practice with regard to sin (having to sacrifice goats, which for many persons at the time were a form of currency/wealth) and in the Pauline Epistles (which, is not surprising with regard to Saul of Tarsus's lineage and pedigree).

The practice was certainly exploited for power in the Middle Ages and that is when a backlash against such indulgences occurred.

KiffinKiller said:
It's easy to keep people in line when they're afraid of burning in hell for eternity.
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I would imagine that this sentiment is more severe in most present day Protestant Denominations than it ever was in the Catholic Church. The earliest Church taught of purgatory, which is infinitely more gracious for Christian tradition than a simple heaven or hell situation, or Calvin's notion of the 144,000 elect.

KiffinKiller said:
Fortunately, the church has evolved a little since then.
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Dynamism in action.
 
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#1,685
#1,685
Gramps said:
Are Indulgrences still part of the practice in CC ?
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Yes. They are not sold, though.

1471 The doctrine and practice of indulgences in the Church are closely linked to the effects of the sacrament of Penance.What is an indulgence?
"An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints."
"An indulgence is partial or plenary according as it removes either part or all of the temporal punishment due to sin." The faithful can gain indulgences for themselves or apply them to the dead.
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#1,690
#1,690
JayVols said:
Once again, I see I know less than I thought. I thought it was abandoned. Thanks for the info and 'link'.
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Not a problem. If you walk from Paris to Santiago de Compostela (Spain) in 2021 you will receive a plenary indulgence. Or, if you ascend the Scala in Rome, at any point, you receive a partial indulgence.
 
#1,691
#1,691
Gramps said:
Confession:
Do Catholic believe priests have the power and authority to forgive sins ?
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As far as I know, catholics believe priests/bishop/pope are a direct link to god and, yes.

I thought that was main difference between catholic and protestant denominations. Believing priests have link or not.
 
#1,692
#1,692
Gramps said:
Confession:
Do Catholic believe priests have the power and authority to forgive sins ?
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Not literally. The penitent must be completely contrite in heart and must be firm in his/her conviction to change their actions, in order for God to forgive their sins. Confession to a priest (prior to about 1200, Confessions to Priests were made in public) is simply one indicator that the person is in fact contrite and the priest is then tasked to assign a penance that both further expresses and/or reveals the contrition to the penitent and aides in keeping the penitent from repeating said sin.

The priest will announce an absolvement (forgiveness of the sin); however, it is only true forgiveness if the penitent meets the conditions I listed above. That being the case, no human can read the thoughts or the heart of another; therefore, no human can actually forgive those sins.

It sounds like a semantic run-around; however, there are plenty of very eloquent volumes written on the subject that clarify most of the confusion.
 
#1,693
#1,693
KiffinKiller said:
As far as I know, catholics believe priests/bishop/pope are a direct link to god and, yes.

I thought that was main difference between catholic and protestant denominations. Believing priests have link or not.
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I am Baptist and this is a big difference.

The Baptist Doctrine teaches that Jesus is the only mediator between God and man.
 
#1,694
#1,694
KiffinKiller said:
As far as I know, catholics believe priests/bishop/pope are a direct link to god and, yes.

I thought that was main difference between catholic and protestant denominations. Believing priests have link or not.
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There is no supposed "direct-link to God" privilege for Priests or Bishops (the Pope is a Bishop) that is not also the same link for all Christians, according to Catholic Doctrine.
 
#1,696
#1,696
therealUT said:
Not literally. The penitent must be completely contrite in heart and must be firm in his/her conviction to change their actions, in order for God to forgive their sins. Confession to a priest (prior to about 1200, Confessions to Priests were made in public) is simply one indicator that the person is in fact contrite and the priest is then tasked to assign a penance that both further expresses and/or reveals the contrition to the penitent and aides in keeping the penitent from repeating said sin.

The priest will announce an absolvement (forgiveness of the sin); however, it is only true forgiveness if the penitent meets the conditions I listed above. That being the case, no human can read the thoughts or the heart of another; therefore, no human can actually forgive those sins.

It sounds like a semantic run-around; however, there are plenty of very eloquent volumes written on the subject that clarify most of the confusion.
Click to expand...

I


t is my understanding that The Roman Catholic Church teach that penance is necessary for salvation.
Is this correct?
 
#1,697
#1,697
therealUT said:
Not a problem. If you walk from Paris to Santiago de Compostela (Spain) in 2021 you will receive a plenary indulgence. Or, if you ascend the Scala in Rome, at any point, you receive a partial indulgence.
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I'll be danged. Do you know the basis for this belief?
 
#1,698
#1,698
JayVols said:
I'll be danged. Do you know the basis for this belief?
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I do. Gotta get a workout in, though. Get back to you in thirty minutes to an hour.

1. Has to do with St. James, though.

2. The Scala are the stairs from Pilate's house; supposedly the last real set of stairs Jesus ascended (prior to the Resurrection).
 
#1,699
#1,699
therealUT said:
I do. Gotta get a workout in, though. Get back to you in thirty minutes to an hour.

1. Has to do with St. James, though.

2. The Scala are the stairs from Pilate's house; supposedly the last real set of stairs Jesus ascended (prior to the Resurrection).
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Cool. Appreciate it. No hurry here, just when/if you get the chance.
 
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