let's debate where all this money is going

#51
#51
lawgator1 said:
Let's not pretend that the current bill is the only one, or even the worst, in terms of sketchy appropriations. Been a problem for decades. The last spending bill under Bush had far goofier crap in it. Remember the money for the archery industry to secure a couple of votes for the bill?
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No doubt but this is the one currently on the table and the topic of the thread (see thread title).
 
#52
#52
lawgator1 said:
Let's not pretend that the current bill is the only one, or even the worst, in terms of sketchy appropriations. Been a problem for decades. The last spending bill under Bush had far goofier crap in it. Remember the money for the archery industry to secure a couple of votes for the bill?
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I already said you cannot point at BO and say he is the only one that did this, however the distinction here is that this is his baby and the money has been directed where he wanted it more or less. Bush wasn't responsible for the archery industry item you mentioned even though he signed it. Once this bill has even more crap attached to it (as will surely happen) no telling where money will be directed.
 
#53
#53
MG1968 said:
maybe so, but this is supposed to be a STIMULUS bill, not an appropriations bill.
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Ummmmm ....

It was the Bush stimulus bill where the archery thing was included:

Tax Break for Arrows? Why It's Part of the Bailout - Politics and Government * US * News * Story - CNBC.com


I hated it then and similarly state that anything like that in the Obama bill ought to be stripped out as well. Now we can argue about ediucation and Medicaid expansion -- their relationship to stimulus is debatable.

But a $200,000 tax break for the archery industry to buy two votes? That was just flat out wackiness.
 
#54
#54
Guess what? I found a Democrat that agrees with many of us here.

washingtonpost.com

n testimony before the House Budget Committee yesterday, Alice M. Rivlin, who was President Bill Clinton's budget director, suggested splitting the plan, implementing its immediate stimulus components now and taking more time to plan the longer-term transformative spending to make sure it is done right.

"Such a long-term investment program should not be put together hastily and lumped in with the anti-recession package. The elements of the investment program must be carefully planned and will not create many jobs right away," said Rivlin, a fellow at the Brookings Institution. The risk, she said, is that "money will be wasted because the investment elements were not carefully crafted."
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and another admits why it's being crammed in now...

House members warn, though, that it will be hard to argue for ambitious undertakings after the stimulus package passes, and that Obama may never again have as good a chance as this to act boldly. "After this initial rush . . . a lot of people are going to begin to wonder about whether we're pushing the limits of our borrowing capacity here, and I'm afraid that when it comes time to do more robust investment . . . it will be 'pay as you go,' " DeFazio said.
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#62
#62
Wolves are guarding the hen house, and just like the wall street bonuses they condemn, congress is having an orgy with the money. Do they feel that the government won the lottery? How many generations before Americans can crawl out from underneath this mountain of debt? Robbing Peter to pay Paul and now Peter is out of cash and maxed out on his credit cards. There is no plan B, America is going bankrupt FAST! We are going to owe our soul to the company store...er..COMMUNIST CHINA.
 
#64
#64
it's truly amazing that when biden said unions are now welcome at the white house and obama said the middle class should be in unions that the market didn't immediately drop 20%.
 
#65
#65
droski said:
it's truly amazing that when biden said unions are now welcome at the white house and obama said the middle class should be in unions that the market didn't immediately drop 20%.
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the USPS is fully unionized and has remained so. Those guys are making money hand over fist lately.

Hell, they're doing so well that they are looking at taking Saturdays off now.
 
#66
#66
Hey droski, didn't you tell me a while back that there weren't going to be any big bonuses on Wall Street?
 
#67
#67
OWB said:
Hey droski, didn't you tell me a while back that there weren't going to be any big bonuses on Wall Street?
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18 billion doesn't represent large bonuses. It represents an awful year to all of them.
 
#68
#68
OWB said:
Hey droski, didn't you tell me a while back that there weren't going to be any big bonuses on Wall Street?
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Why should you care what bonus somone gets? As far as they are concerned, "they won", so they can get what they want. Right?
 
#70
#70
The whole bonus issue is a complete red herring anyway. People attack bonuses because they are easy targets, but in the scheme of things they are a drop in the bucket.
 
#71
#71
A bunch of these drops in a bucket are adding up fast....the bailouts aren't over either. When will the insanity stop?
 
#72
#72
BigPapaVol said:
18 billion doesn't represent large bonuses. It represents an awful year to all of them.
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Not all of them, the securities came out alright.

Obama Blasts Wall Street Bonuses - BusinessWeek

The Jan. 28 report on Wall Street bonuses by New York State Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli found that overall bonuses fell 44% in 2008—yet the size of the securities industry bonus pool, estimated at $18.4 billion, was the sixth-highest on record. Employment in the securities industry in New York City declined from 187,800 in October 2007 to 168,600 in December 2008, a 10.2% drop.
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#74
#74
According to a Bloomberg analysis incorporating data from the Treasury Department and Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. (FDIC) and interviews with regulatory officials and others:


* $300 billion has been spent on Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac (FRE), American International Group Inc. (AIG) and Bear Stearns Cos. (now part of JP Morgan Chase & Co. (JPM).

* $300 billion on Citigroup.

* $700 billion on TARP - though not on what TARP was intended for.

* $800 billion on Fed-directed asset-backed debt-purchase programs.

* $1.4 trillion on FDIC bank guarantees.

* $2.3 trillion on Fed commercial paper programs.

* And $2.2 trillion on other Fed lending and government commitments.


That totals a little bit more than $8.5 trillion.

Want to know how 850 billion morphs into 8.5 trillion, just ask I'll give a very short explanation, promise.gs

Ignorance is the most expensive thing in the world.
 
#75
#75
rjd970 said:
Not all of them, the securities came out alright.
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I thought you were a Ron Paul supporter????

Where does all this money come from???

When is it required that a pound of flesh be paid back??
 
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