Lets look out our situation

#26
#26
No, Count, I get what you're saying totally.

You're just saying that Butch is on a new level, and though he had success at the levels he was at, that doesn't mean that he will here, because the competition is a new level, and he's already starting at a disadvantage.

However, Butch does seem to show that he has the ability to recruit, and that will help him to a point. It should make us win the games we are supposed to win, which up until now, has been a point of concern. No reason why we should be cutting it close to teams we should be blowing out from a talent perspective.

But, talent only goes so far. Butch can recruit 4 solid years of talent, and yet, not have the coaching skills to win the big one, or the close one. Mark Richt is the go-to for that one. Can recruit, but really is not a big game winner coach. Therefore, he underachieves.

Butch could get us to 7-9 wins a year on talent alone I think, depending on the strength of the conference, but the teams that consistently get over that hump have 1 of 2 things: a VERY easy schedule (Georgia again) or a Coach who can REALLY coach.

Butch and Jake and Jancek made some questionable calls last year, no doubt about that. But...I think we'll see a better understanding of the players this year, and I think we'll see some better preparation on the coaches' end now that they have experience playing these teams, and players that better "fit" their system.

It is anticipated that there will be some defensive staff changes after the season, according to the other thread. But...I'm not sure where they will be. And even if there are, I don't think we see an entire defensive philosophy change. Maybe just some new better recruiters.

I don't know. It's way too early to tell. Butch is taking over a different scenario than he did at EMU or Cincy. But...he's started out the right way. He's recruited well, and that's all you can do your first year or two.

I really really hope he's the man, but if he's not, if he keeps recruiting at a level like this, he SURELY won't leave the program in the shape that Dooley or Kiffin left it in.
 
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#27
#27
So what is your suggestion Count? We've got the coach that we've got, and he'll be here at least 2 more seasons. If it doesn't work out we'll move on to the next guy. In the meantime I choose to look at the positives and hope for the best. If and when it becomes obvious that he's not the guy I'll lead the chorus to get him out of here.

Right now we have a guy who managed to take a very untalented team and beat the #4 team in the final rankings. He followed that up with a top 5 recruiting class. And he's putting together another superb class. All this to say that this is a night and day difference from the previous staff.
 
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#28
#28
Gus Malzahn began coaching at high schools, therefore he will fail at Auburn....oh wait! :blink:


.
 
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#29
#29
CountVolcula said:
This is true

But you have seen the posts proclaiming him the next coming of General Neyland
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I like you Count. But with all due respect, the amount of hope for what our head coach will be able to do is up to the individual. It's fine for you to feel the way you do. But it's also fine for others to feel the way they do.
 
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#31
#31
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
So what is your suggestion Count? We've got the coach that we've got, and he'll be here at least 2 more seasons. If it doesn't work out we'll move on to the next guy. In the meantime I choose to look at the positives and hope for the best. If and when it becomes obvious that he's not the guy I'll lead the chorus to get him out of here.

Right now we have a guy who managed to take a very untalented team and beat the #4 team in the final rankings. He followed that up with a top 5 recruiting class. And he's putting together another superb class. All this to say that this is a night and day difference from the previous staff.
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All I'm saying is people should pump the brakes. When you put a coach on such a pedestal as some have Jones, and expect so much, they will be the first to want him gone when the success is not so easily gained.

Its like the comparisons with what Saban did at Alabama. UT fans grab on to any ray of hope and run with it
 
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#32
#32
I don't understand the constant negative view of the team and the coaches in the second year. It's as if they want the team and the coaches to fail.
 
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#35
#35
CountVolcula said:
This is true

But you have seen the posts proclaiming him the next coming of General Neyland
Click to expand...

I just take those posts with a grain of salt. A lot of the posts that proclaim we're going 10-2 this year and we're definitely gonna kick Florida's arse drive me nuts too, but it doesn't drive me to think that Jones' past success will have no bearing on his future career.

He's not nor will he ever, with damn near 100% certainty, be able to duplicate General Neyland's success. But it doesn't mean that his track record of success at his previous stops can't translate to success in the SEC. I don't presume to know, but I'll say this....I bet I feel much better with his hire knowing that he'd won 65% of his games before UT as a head coach than the Auburn fans must've felt when Chizik was hired with a career 5-19 record at Iowa St. He caught lightning in a bottle for a year before his lack of pedigree led to a 3-9 record 2 years later and his ouster.
 
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#36
#36
vollygirl said:
I like you Count. But with all due respect, the amount of hope for what our head coach will be able to do is up to the individual. It's fine for you to feel the way you do. But it's also fine for others to feel the way they do.
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I agree Vollygirl. I think the worse things got, the more we as individuals look for things to hang our hat onto.

With Kiffin, we saw a potential gem at first. He seemed to recruit well, had an all-star staff, and nearly beat Bama his first year, as well as beating Georgia and South Carolina.

He bolted, so we wanted someone who was going to stay. We got Dooley. Dooley seemed to be more in touch with southern culture, unlike California Kiffin. Dooley provided some instant hope by keeping Bray, bringing in Da'Rick and Hunter, as well as Curt Maggitt and A.J. Dooley also almost beat LSU and won a bowl game his first year (I frequently wonder if those two games would have changed everything, or at least postponed the result of the Dooley tenure here). However, Dooley seemed to be lazy, lose the close recruiting battles, and seemed to be lost half of the time.

With Butch, he seems to get Tennessee tradition. He has recruited like crazy, and none of us are suspecting foul play like we did with Kiffin. We don't suspect it, because he is selling all of the things that we think should make a recruit want to come to Tennessee: the tradition, the facilities, the fans, the conference, the academics, the location. And he's building relationships. He's not selling them on "we'll get you ready for the NFL, because we have a NFL staff" but he's selling them on the fact that he genuinely seems to care, and he'll take care of them and make them as good as they possibly can be on and off the field. Much more of a relationship game with Butch.

Butch has also showed a fire in recruiting that Dooley never showed. Sending 100+ letters in the mail to recruits, sending paintings of recruits. Making a heart with UT helmets to celebrate the anniversary of a recruit's dad, the Bucket Hat tweets, Butch is just being ridiculously creative and relentless with ways to show these kids that we want them. The staff hinting on their twitters pushes the envelope as far as they can. It's nice to sit there and wonder "do these guys ever sleep?!?"

I'm not ready to proclaim Butch General Neyland by any stretch. But....at the beginning of his second year, he's done everything we could have possibly hoped for for a second year coach of this trainwreck to do. Only thing left to do is to improve and win.
 
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#37
#37
CountVolcula said:
All I'm saying is people should pump the brakes. When you put a coach on such a pedestal as some have Jones, and expect so much, they will be the first to want him gone when the success is not so easily gained.

Its like the comparisons with what Saban did at Alabama. UT fans grab on to any ray of hope and run with it
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I get what you are saying, and I agree with you. But right now hope is all we have.
 
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#38
#38
Ok...I broke down and read the rest of that nonsense. I knew better.

I suppose we should just hire a coach who never coached anywhere since what a coach does on their way up is irrelevant?

That entire ridiculous post summed up is this..... Just because he's been successful in the past doesnt mean he will be successful here.

If anyone is lucky enough to read this first, do yourself a favor and dont waste your time reading all that nonsense.
 
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#39
#39
CountVolcula said:
How many have not?
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There are only 4 pounds that separate a featherweight from a super featherweight. 3 pounds that separate a flyweight from a super flyweight and so on and so on. Unfortunately, many casual boxing fans think only about heavy weights where your initial comparison does apply with few exceptions (Holyfield). There are 16 weight classes and my point is that the majority of boxers will fluctuate weight classes during their careers especially in search of favorable match ups $$$. Sorry about all this boxing stuff in a football forum. I have been a lifelong fan.
 
#40
#40
CountVolcula said:
He was not an assistant at Cincinnati

He took that position after Kelly left for Notre Dame

Kelly's team won 12 games and finished #4 in the AP. The next year, Jones took that team, minus some skill players, and went 4-8
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what did he do in year 2? 10-3,then in year 3 went 9-3,winning conference championships in 4 of 6 years at Central Michigan and Cincy...
 
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#41
#41
Count,

If you ever used Dooleys record at La tech to argue that he wouldnt be successful here (which im sure you did), your whole argument just went up in flames. A coaches history is the best indication we have as to whether or not they will continue to succeed or fail. There is no sure thing either way.
 
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#42
#42
CountVolcula said:
but in a different way
So, in closing, none of us who show doubt in Jones' abilities is not that we hate him or don't want him to succeed. Its that we have seen this before, heard the same promises, seen the same efforts, seen the same results. We want Jones to succeed, but basing your idea of his future success based on being good at beating lower level competition is asinine. Until he can prove himself at this level and win consistently, what he did at Cincinnati and Central Michigan is irrelevant
:hi:
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Just some simple results to show how bogus your theory is! While at Cincinnati Butch Jones beat Purdue, Northwestern, UConn, Memphis, SMU, Rutgers, Houston, Pittsburg, Virginia Tech, Syracuse, North Carolina State, Louisville, and Vanderbilt! Now he has the recruiting draw of the University of Tennessee Volunteers and he is proving what a gold mine that is. Go away, Frankenberry!!
 
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#44
#44
CountVolcula said:
You are all using exceptions and not the rule

How many coaches have won a NC?

How many have not?
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True! Therefore....we should....eliminate football and fire everybody because the "odds" of winning are just insurmountable?? :blink:
I am trying to understand what you are saying Count????
The odds are so remote that no one should even try???


.
 
#46
#46
Great for the classroom, great for recruiting, very good at promoting UT. The question of developing talent and putting it all together on the field remains in my mind.

There is reason for hope, but I have yet to see Butch as any kind of game day maestro. I hope that we are only waiting to see how good he is once he has his players in his system. That is fair though, let him develop his talent and show us what he can do with it.
 
#47
#47
KBVol said:
You omitted that Saban actually started his HC career at Toledo, where he had a successful 9-2 season before moving on to Mich St. We can surely agree that coaching at Toledo is a lower level than coaching in the Big 10. I would argue that coaching in the Big 10 is also at a lower level than coaching in the SEC to a lesser degree.
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Convient omission. I wonder why Dooley failed. he had stops with some impressive football teams, but not as a head coach.
 
#49
#49
While at Cincinnati Butch Jones beat Purdue, Northwestern, UConn, Memphis, SMU, Rutgers, Houston, Pittsburg, Virginia Tech, Syracuse, North Carolina State, Louisville, and Vanderbilt! Now he has the recruiting draw of the University of Tennessee Volunteers and he is proving what a gold mine that is. 'nuff said!
 
#50
#50
f77f00 said:
Great for the classroom, great for recruiting, very good at promoting UT. The question of developing talent and putting it all together on the field remains in my mind.

There is reason for hope, but I have yet to see Butch as any kind of game day maestro. I hope that we are only waiting to see how good he is once he has his players in his system. That is fair though, let him develop his talent and show us what he can do with it.
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Fulmer was anything but a game day maestro, but he got the job done. You don't have to be if you bring in the talent and coach them up properly.
 
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