Lets look out our situation

[Slydell]

From the OP, " basing your idea of his future success based on being good at beating lower level competition is asinine. Until he can prove himself at this level and win consistently, what he did at Cincinnati and Central Michigan is irrelevant"

I guess I don't see this as the Kiss of Death. Accomplishments, however they come, at a D 2 level doesn't necessarily equate to success at the D 1 level. I think we all hope that he does well here and has much success.

 

[tnlizard]

If Butch builds it they will come...

 

[Les Miles]

I stopped reading at "fairly good job"

Butch Jones is a good coach and will turn things around. Just not this season with the current talent level.

 

[CountVolcula]

I guess I don't see this as the Kiss of Death. Accomplishments, however they come, at a D 2 level doesn't necessarily equate to success at the D 1 level. I think we all hope that he does well here and has much success.

Exactly

Anything shy of " he gets it" is taboo

I can't imagine little ole me having any impact on the future of UT football with a post questioning the abilities of the coaches

If so, I have far more power than I considered

 

[nagle]

Exactly

Anything shy of " he gets it" is taboo

I can't imagine little ole me having any impact on the future of UT football with a post questioning the abilities of the coaches

If so, I have far more power than I considered

no impact but ur post are getting old and complacent.

 

[majorvol]

Give him a fighters chance count. I like the fact that he truly acts like he wants to be here. And everyday recruits seem to like what he's telling them. I'll say he's off to a great start , don't know about anybody else. I'm not going to be a Debbie downer.

 

[alaVOL]

but in a different way

I consistently see the argument that Butch Jones will inevitably be successful here because he was successful at others stops during his coaching career. It is true that he was successful at Central Michigan and again at Cincinnati. However, both times he took over an already successful program, so he basically continued the status quo. At Tennessee that is not true. Essentially he is going to have to rebuild a program, which is something he has yet to do. So far, he is doing a fairly good job, barring some setbacks in game day coaching

To add to this idea that he will be successful solely based on his success at lower level programs, lets look at it from the standpoint of a boxer

Lets say this boxer starts of as a middle weight fighter. He has trained his entire career, so far, to fight boxers of his own weight class and ability. He has shown that he has done well and pretty much handled that level of competition with ease. One day, this boxer gets a chance to move up in weight class. He sees it as the opportunity to challenge himself and prove to himself that he is the best. But, once he does, he realizes that the competition he used to fight is different from what he is fighting now. His new competition is faster, stronger, and more well coached than any boxer he has seen. He notices that is old moves no longer work and that he must get bigger, faster, and stronger to even be able to compete with his new opponents. He notices that the success he was almost guaranteed at his old weight is not as easy at his new weight. But his fans don't see it that way. They look to him as being the dominant fighter like he was before but does not take into account the level he is expected to fight at now. They refuse to believe that he might be just an average fighter at his new weight. They proclaim him champ even before his first match and even after he lost 7 matches out of 12. They point to his one knockout of a favored fighter that he will soon be the next champ and hold the belt high in the ring. Others know that only time will tell if he will be able to conquer his new level of competition and that any shouts of impending glory is simply premature

So, in closing, none of us who show doubt in Jones' abilities is not that we hate him or don't want him to succeed. Its that we have seen this before, heard the same promises, seen the same efforts, seen the same results. We want Jones to succeed, but basing your idea of his future success based on being good at beating lower level competition is asinine. Until he can prove himself at this level and win consistently, what he did at Cincinnati and Central Michigan is irrelevant

:hi:

Your points are valid. However, certain characteristics Butch has shown lead me to believe he's going to be very successful at Tennessee or anyplace else he might land. Butch is a very good recruiter and we all know that's the biggest part of wins and loses. He is a very good motivator which brings out the best in players. These qualities alone give me 100% confidence Butch will be successful at Tennessee. Will that mean National Titles or SEC championships? Only time will tell, but I think he has what it takes to mold young men into a determined group that doesn't fold. :good!:

 

[Volgrad98]

Don't know yet if Coach Jones is a middleweight, but he and his staff sure are recruiting like heavyweights.

 

[governmentmule]

Fulmer was anything but a game day maestro, but he got the job done. You don't have to be if you bring in the talent and coach them up properly.

if Coach Fulmer hadn't of gotten the boot,he would have beaten the General for most wins,was it Hamilton's big mistake firing him or was it the boosters ?Who knows,it is water under the bridge

and who knows what Coach Jones is going to do,he is recruiting good,which is great,like others have said,there seem to be a number of questionable calls last year on both sides of the ball

only time is going to tell,as to how good or bad CBJ is going to be,hopefully hiw boxing skills will improve


here is to hoping practice gets underway soon to stop the preseason post madness

 

[MrBiggles]

Rome wasn't built in a day, Count! Kiffin and Dooley pretty much burned the program to the ground. Give him another year and see what happens. I think this year we will be genuinely surprised what happens. Look at the Georgia and Carolina game for evidence of his coaching ability. I loved the fact that he got the players playing above their capabilities and won 1 out of 2 of them and that was a team that many said "had no talent, were too slow, had no depth, no experience". Imagine what will happen when those issues are gone. That is what a lot of people who are optimistic are thinking, I think.

 

[BearBryant]

but in a different way

I consistently see the argument that Butch Jones will inevitably be successful here because he was successful at others stops during his coaching career. It is true that he was successful at Central Michigan and again at Cincinnati. However, both times he took over an already successful program, so he basically continued the status quo. At Tennessee that is not true. Essentially he is going to have to rebuild a program, which is something he has yet to do. So far, he is doing a fairly good job, barring some setbacks in game day coaching

To add to this idea that he will be successful solely based on his success at lower level programs, lets look at it from the standpoint of a boxer

Lets say this boxer starts of as a middle weight fighter. He has trained his entire career, so far, to fight boxers of his own weight class and ability. He has shown that he has done well and pretty much handled that level of competition with ease. One day, this boxer gets a chance to move up in weight class. He sees it as the opportunity to challenge himself and prove to himself that he is the best. But, once he does, he realizes that the competition he used to fight is different from what he is fighting now. His new competition is faster, stronger, and more well coached than any boxer he has seen. He notices that is old moves no longer work and that he must get bigger, faster, and stronger to even be able to compete with his new opponents. He notices that the success he was almost guaranteed at his old weight is not as easy at his new weight. But his fans don't see it that way. They look to him as being the dominant fighter like he was before but does not take into account the level he is expected to fight at now. They refuse to believe that he might be just an average fighter at his new weight. They proclaim him champ even before his first match and even after he lost 7 matches out of 12. They point to his one knockout of a favored fighter that he will soon be the next champ and hold the belt high in the ring. Others know that only time will tell if he will be able to conquer his new level of competition and that any shouts of impending glory is simply premature

So, in closing, none of us who show doubt in Jones' abilities is not that we hate him or don't want him to succeed. Its that we have seen this before, heard the same promises, seen the same efforts, seen the same results. We want Jones to succeed, but basing your idea of his future success based on being good at beating lower level competition is asinine. Until he can prove himself at this level and win consistently, what he did at Cincinnati and Central Michigan is irrelevant

:hi:

Was your post really necessary?

None of us is capable of seeing into the future.

Good coaches win everywhere they go, at any level they are at.

Just looking at how Tennessee played last year what an improvement!!!

The recruiting is going excellent. You know it appears to me Jones is a winner and will win at Tennessee. I base this on what has happened so far since he has been here not on projecting the future and seeing into a crystal ball

Unfortunately Fulmer let the program drop to middle of the pack in the SEC and from there it was one major disaster after another. First an ass as coach and then an idiot.

I was for giving Fulmer one more year but it was obvious that the program was not headed in a good direction. Fulmer's decline showed up when LSU beat Tennessee in the SEC Championship game(2001). That should not have happened but it did and Tennessee was on the decline ever since.

Hiring the ass next set Tennessee back 5 years!! He is not head coach material, had no record to support being hired at the TOP College Football Job in America!! And I still support eliminating that season from all record books as though it never happened. And I truly wish the VN would never write about this douche bag again. Don't ever forget he took down pics of Tennessee and put pics of USC up in the Tennessee football complex. I would have fired is arrogant ass before the day ended.

Then Dooley, I was hoping Dooley would be successful. A southerner with SEC roots. But what an idiot he turned out to be and it is obvious he can't coach.

But Jones, his past record and what he has done so far gives me great confidence UT is back. And they will be at the TOP of the SEC soon. Herbstreet and all the gum flappers will be talking UT as potential National Champ for many years.

 

[vtvol98]

I would like to think that Butch's career path will be more akin to Urban Meyers'; HC at Bowling Green (a MAC school), HC at Utah (another mid-major), and National Championships at UF (a SEC school). He took over all 3 programs and boosted their winning pcts. at every stop.

 

[DaddyChad]

Why is there always this rush to be right on message boards? You need knowledge to form an informed opinion and we haven't had enough time to get there yet. CBJ recruits at an elite level, got this team to beat a much more talented Carolina team last year but also had some stubbles IE South Alabama. IDK if he's the man or not but he's better than the last two guys we had here and better than Fulmer in his last few years.

 

[vol4him]

OP, good sound argument. Who knows what will happen in the future. But when you said we have seen all this before including the level of effort, your argument flow quickly became a train wreck. That my friend is what is different thus far. Time will tell whether effort translates into wins, but it sure is refreshing to see him out work his peers!

 

[utvols74]

I get what you're positing Count, but we just don't have enough data yet. I would be on the NC in '16 bandwagon if we'd beaten GA and FL last year, but we didn't. Likewise not losing to Vandy would help. So, like you, I'm curbing my enthusiasm until we string together a few respectable SEC wins.

Having said that, I think he's pulling in talent far and wide and is in on other superior talent. He's building relationships with HS coaches and players. He seems to be doing many things right. My only caution there is that we've had million dollar talent in year's past and thousand dollar coaching (at times). So talent isn't everything.

 

[92volalum]

Great for the classroom, great for recruiting, very good at promoting UT. The question of developing talent and putting it all together on the field remains in my mind.

There is reason for hope, but I have yet to see Butch as any kind of game day maestro. I hope that we are only waiting to see how good he is once he has his players in his system. That is fair though, let him develop his talent and show us what he can do with it.

I agree n 3 games prove the questions. Fla.ducks n candy.. All of them showed glaring coaching/philosophy issues..

Will he change I hope he does otherwise he will be JM 2.0..IMO

 

[EZE]

What Saban did at Toledo is irrelevant. He has proven himself at this level.

So since we are comparing Saban And Jones, that means Jones should go 12-0 this year and play for the SECC?

I mean since Saban did that same exact thing

Your logic is just plain lacking. At the time Saban took the LSU job, he was far less of a proven commodity than Butch. Saban had one season at Toledo, which was 9-2. But his five seasons at MSU WERE FAR FROM STELLAR. Only one of those seasons resulted in more than 7 victories.

However, when he went to LSU, he did exactly what Butch is doing. He recruited and upgraded the roster and then won.

There,is no guarantee that Butch will also succeed. BUT there is no guarantee that he will fail either. Based on his ability to recruit and upgrade the roster,so far, I am willing to give him a fair amount of time, which is around 3-4 years to be in the mix in the East.

 

[MWAVolfan]

I like you Count. But with all due respect, the amount of hope for what our head coach will be able to do is up to the individual. It's fine for you to feel the way you do. But it's also fine for others to feel the way they do.

The problem here as always continues to be Derek Dooley, or at least the stink of Derek Dooley that remains.

For Butch Jones there are two distinct fan reactions he has to face as the successor to Dooley....

On the one hand you have the "sunshine pumpers" who are just so damn glad that Dooley is gone. We could have hired a trained chimpanzee as head coach and these people would be ready to say we are going to win the east, because anybody is better than Dooley at UT.

On the other hand you have "negavols" who are so beat down by Dooley that they have lost all hope to live. Tennessee will never be better and Jones will be just like the last guy and Jones was not our first choice for head coach just like Dooley etc etc.

The legacy of Derek Dooley continues to be written at Tennessee and as head coach, Jones has to deal in many ways with following one of the epicly and historically terrible head coaching tenures in the history of major college football. Rightfully so, some people are going to be skeptical while others feel like karma is going to credit us for all the wrong done to us under Dooley.

 

[MWAVolfan]

I agree n 3 games prove the questions. Fla.ducks n candy.. All of them showed glaring coaching/philosophy issues..

Will he change I hope he does otherwise he will be JM 2.0..IMO

I'd say they showed glaring defensive and QB issues. But who's counting right?

 

[MWAVolfan]

In one regard coach Jones is lucky. There is no possible way he can do worse at UT than Dooley did. We may not win a NC, but we cant do any worse, its just not possible. Even after Dooley Tennessee is one of only two programs who have never won fewer than 5 games in a season.

That right there just proves you cant kill UT football.

Having Dooley as your head coach is like taking a freight train to the scrotum. We beat that sh!t and lived! GO VOLS!!!!!

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

In one regard coach Jones is lucky. There is no possible way he can do worse at UT than Dooley did. We may not win a NC, but we cant do any worse, its just not possible. Even after Dooley Tennessee is one of only two programs who have never won fewer than 5 games in a season.

That right there just proves you cant kill UT football.

Having Dooley as your head coach is like taking a freight train to the scrotum. We beat that sh!t and lived! GO VOLS!!!!!

We have never lost more than 7 games in a season, but we have had a 4 win season in my lifetime. In 1977 we went 4-7.

 

[MWAVolfan]

We have never lost more than 7 games in a season, but we have had a 4 win season in my lifetime. In 1977 we went 4-7.

true. I said it backwards.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

true. I said it backwards.

It's still something. We're one of only 2 teams who can make that claim. If we didn't do it with the lack of talent and the worst coach in UT history I don't think it'll happen any time soon.

 

[DarthGrim]

I have two thoughts:

1. Butch took the 2 opportunities he had in Central Mich and Cincinnati and made the most of them. Call it status quot if you want, but neither school is a power house and he managed to at least maintain success at schools where success has never been a given.

2. Butch hasn't done anything between the lines that should silence any critics yet, but the wins he has had came with a dearth of talent of which I have never seen in my lifetime at UT. You can only coach up so much before the lack of talent in relation to your competition is exposed. A good coach knows that and does what is needed to correct that which CBJ is doing in spades.

I'm optimistic and reserve judgement of Butch's ability as a tactician until he provides a reason not too which at this point in time doesn't exist. Those of us that think this way are more likely glass half-full types, but why rain on our parade when there is no clear evidence of yet to the contrary? :toast:

 

[KBVol]

We have never lost more than 7 games in a season, but we have had a 4 win season in my lifetime. In 1977 we went 4-7.

The correct stat I think the guy was trying to cite is UT is one of 2 teams (other is Ohio St) to never lose 8 gms in a season.