Limitations of a "West Coast" Offense

#51
#51
The X's and O's do not determine championships. There is no magical offensive or defensive scheme. What truly determines the outcomes of games is the Johnnys and Joes successfully executing the fundamentals and winning the match ups. We haven't had a roster in years that could win match ups. That is changing.
 
#54
#54
Believe we run the power spread?

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#55
#55
KennyMayne said:
The X's and O's do not determine championships. There is no magical offensive or defensive scheme. What truly determines the outcomes of games is the Johnnys and Joes successfully executing the fundamentals and winning the match ups. We haven't had a roster in years that could win match ups. That is changing.
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I do not entirely disagree with you. Notice I stated that CBJ needs to bring in more of the Jimmys and Joes and teach them the system. In college, the Xs and Os do have an impact. Look at some of these schools that have benefited from scheme. Auburn is a great example, but there are many less talented teams that perform above their talent level bc of the coaches' schemes. If a good scheme doesn't help players perform better the term "system QB" wouldn't exist.
 
#56
#56
DiderotsGhost said:
There are people with more expertise than me on this at VN, but ...

(A) We don't run a West Coast offense,
(B) With all due respect to the OP, I believe he is mis-defining West Coast offense [though, the definition has become a bit confused over time]
(C) Don't think that having a West Coast offense would change our emphasis on defense.

On a very a basic level, the West Coast offense is meant to protect against a big pass rush. WC Offense focuses on a short passing game to make the pass rush less effective, make play-calling less predictable, and open up the field for bigger plays later on.

Our offense (I've normally seen it called the "power spread" here) has a similar goal to help neutralize a strong pass rush, but with a bigger emphasis on misdirection type running plays (e.g. zone read) than the WC offense.

Unfortunately, our offense wasn't very successful in achieving its goals much of last season. This was partly because a lack of experience and talent at several positions. It was also because we lacked the personnel and knowledge to make it work. Hence, our "zone read" became fairly predictable, and defenses knew exactly where to focus their efforts.

I think Butch knew all of this going in last season, but he was looking at the long-term. By implementing his system right away, it would make it easier to run in Year 2 and beyond. It would also allow recruits to see exactly the direction we were going with the offense, so Butch could better recruit the type of players we need in the future.

And yes, for those more knowledgeable than me, feel free to correct any misconceptions I have. I try to understand what I can about offensive and defensive strategies, but I also have a day job ;)
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A. We do run a West coast offense. The main play we run is a zone read with a play side comeback and flat route and two backside deep drags. (See Marquez North catch vs WKU)

Also the zone read requires Zone blocking which is a staple of the west coast offense. It's the same thing the broncos ran in the early 2000s and now every team does it almost.


We also run other stuff but it has heavy west coast influence
 
#57
#57
roosterjbh said:
Those Meyer era Florida teams were pretty successful spreading the field. Was it 2 BCS titles? *shivers*
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Again, I don't have anything against a spread offense. In fact, I love Butch Jones' vision in that regard---I have bought in like most Vol fans.

And Meyer's Florida teams are a perfect illustration of my original point: They ran a spread offense (well, they spread the field, at least) AND were still extremely physical at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. I'm elated because I think that's the direction Butch Jones is taking us.
 
#58
#58
KingtUT said:
So let me get this straight.......we run a "west coast" offense now? Ughhhhhhh................... I dont think so.
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I'm not sure what we run exactly, but if we don't see Worley under center this year we're going to have similar problems as last year.
 
#59
#59
HoptownVol said:
I'm not sure what we run exactly, but if we don't see Worley under center this year we're going to have similar problems as last year.
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So,according to you, success is predicated on somebody putting their hands between somebody's legs? :yuck:
 
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#61
#61
I still don't know what the heck a "west coast offense" is and exactly what labels a team "west coast".....and before somebody tells me you spread the ball to a bunch of receivers, te's and running backs...why exactly is that synonymous with the west coast?? and how is that different from what any team does that has skilled players at multiple positions? I'm ready to see some East Coast Special Teams baby!!
 
#62
#62
Volfan76 said:
I still don't know what the heck a "west coast offense" is and exactly what labels a team "west coast".....and before somebody tells me you spread the ball to a bunch of receivers, te's and running backs...why exactly is that synonymous with the west coast?? and how is that different from what any team does that has skilled players at multiple positions? I'm ready to see some East Coast Special Teams baby!!
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West Coast is basically a passing attack predicated on primarily short and intermediate--high %-- passing routes.
 
#63
#63
Dear god. Another misinformed thread on offensive strategy.

Oregon has one of the most physical running games in the nations.
 
#64
#64
Orange_Crush said:
West Coast is basically a passing attack predicated on primarily short and intermediate--high %-- passing routes.
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And is one of the most popular passing attacks on all levels. The only other attack you really see in the NFL is the more vertically based air coryell offense.

But between the air raid(a variation of the west coast) and the Bill Walsh coaching, almost every college, pro, and NFL team uses west coast passing schemes. Including Georgia, Florida state, and Alabama.
 
#65
#65
Volfan76 said:
I still don't know what the heck a "west coast offense" is and exactly what labels a team "west coast".....and before somebody tells me you spread the ball to a bunch of receivers, te's and running backs...why exactly is that synonymous with the west coast?? and how is that different from what any team does that has skilled players at multiple positions? I'm ready to see some East Coast Special Teams baby!!
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It's the route concepts
 
#66
#66
Vol8188 said:
And is one of the most popular passing attacks on all levels. The only other attack you really see in the NFL is the more vertically based air coryell offense.

But between the air raid(a variation of the west coast) and the Bill Walsh coaching, almost every college, pro, and NFL team uses west coast passing schemes. Including Georgia, Florida state, and Alabama.
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I agree. I'm a big fan of it.
 
#67
#67
Vol8188 said:
Dear god. Another misinformed thread on offensive strategy.

Oregon has one of the most physical running games in the nations.
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No they don't lol. They have a good running game but it's because of zone blocking and the vision and speed of the RBs. When they start running stuff like power and gaining consistent yards then they will have a physical run game.
 
#68
#68
Vol865 said:
No they don't lol. They have a good running game but it's because of zone blocking and the vision and speed of the RBs. When they start running stuff like power and gaining consistent yards then they will have a physical run game.
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They run the crap out of inside zone and pound it down people's throats. Your probably couldn't even diagram a power play and just think it's cool because of the name.

Power is an off tackle C gap play, inside zone is as straight ahead as it gets. The blocking for inside is basically old school veer blocking and very similiar to full back dive where you just double team the dline and try to run through the lb.

To call them non physical for being a zone team is beyond ignorant. Alabama has been a zone team since Saban arrived. Are they not physical to you?
 
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#70
#70
Vol8188 you seem to know your Xs and Os pretty well. You should consider doing some simple play breakdowns of things you notice when play starts. Might be some interesting reads among the multitude of useless threads that get started.
 
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#71
#71
orange parmejohn said:
Vol8188 you seem to know your Xs and Os pretty well. You should consider doing some simple play breakdowns of things you notice when play starts. Might be some interesting reads among the multitude of useless threads that get started.
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I made a thread about the zone read when CBJ first arrived. I diagrammed the basics of the offense, how people would defend us, and some counter measures we would use. I really enjoyed it. Freak asked me something similar before last season, but I told him I'd need game film. I now have a DVR. So I've thought about doing such a thread. It's just been a busy year or so between work, the farm, coaching, and masters courses, and now a broke arm as well.

But it's something I'm considering. I probably won't be able to do much for the defense or passing game due to tight camera angles, but I think I would enjoy it.
 
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#72
#72
Vol8188 said:
I made a thread about the zone read when CBJ first arrived. I diagrammed the basics of the offense, how people would defend us, and some counter measures we would use. I really enjoyed it. Freak asked me something similar before last season, but I told him I'd need game film. I now have a DVR. So I've thought about doing such a thread. It's just been a busy year or so between work, the farm, coaching, and masters courses, and now a broke arm as well.

But it's something I'm considering. I probably won't be able to do much for the defense or passing game due to tight camera angles, but I think I would enjoy it.
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I'd love this. Was I supposed to send you film and forgot? Email me when you can and let's discuss: vol_freak@yahoo.com.
 
#73
#73
Vol8188 said:
I made a thread about the zone read when CBJ first arrived. I diagrammed the basics of the offense, how people would defend us, and some counter measures we would use. I really enjoyed it. Freak asked me something similar before last season, but I told him I'd need game film. I now have a DVR. So I've thought about doing such a thread. It's just been a busy year or so between work, the farm, coaching, and masters courses, and now a broke arm as well.

But it's something I'm considering. I probably won't be able to do much for the defense or passing game due to tight camera angles, but I think I would enjoy it.
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I look forward to reading.
 
#75
#75
KingtUT said:
So let me get this straight.......we run a "west coast" offense now? Ughhhhhhh................... I dont think so.
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Yup. West Coast is not the 'Power' Spread. Some folks want to point at the West Coast or old Single Wing or Wing T formations as the root of the Spread. In reality, the spread is an amalgamation of many that have gone before. Depending on which OC is doing the tinkering, it pulls bits and pieces from quite a few offensive sets, and yes, West Coast is one, but not the sole source.
 
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