Lipscomb dismisses top 3 point shooter in D-I

[Jax_Vol]

After centuries of Judea being captured and trampled through by invading armies and Jews being exiled here, there, and elsewhere, there was a lot of confusion and contradiction about what God wanted His people to do. So of course, lots of different groups arose, all of whom had different rules that they thought everyone should follow in order to please God. (See all the references to the Pharisees and the Sadducees in the NT.) And as tends to happen among humans, the arguing between all the groups polarized them, and they all became more and more obsessed with their rules, and more and more insistent that only their set of rules must be followed to be correct. (That is legalism.)

Christ's argument with all these different religious authorities was that in their obsession with who had the correct set of rules to follow, they had all lost sight of what God actually wanted people to do: do justice, love kindness, walk humbly with their God; love God with all their hearts, their souls, their strength, and their minds; and love their neighbors as themselves. It wasn't about whether they were supposed to sacrifice a goat versus a sheep, or not rescue a wounded animal on the Sabbath, or use Welch's grape juice vs wine, or (please forgive me) use instruments in worship.

It was about understanding God's love and forgiveness, accepting it in their own lives, and then turning around and sharing that same love and forgiveness with everyone around them. (That's the Beatitudes, and the parable of the Good Samaritan, and all.)

When the customs and teachings of a given denomination help people get closer to God, then IMO they are wonderful. Some people can feel closer to God when incense is used, whereas it just makes me sneeze. But when the teachings cause people to feel excluded and rejected, then (again IMO) they are contrary to God's desire for all humanity to be reconciled to Him.

I am a musician. I sing in a choir, and the music lifts and inspires me, and instruments added to voices make my spirit soar. I've also sung a cappella, and I love it as well, and find it equally inspiring. I don't think that anyone MUST have instruments as part of worship, but I genuinely cannot fathom a loving God, the Creator of the universe, who would say "Nope" to someone who attended a church with a piano or organ or guitar or anything else. That seems completely contrary to everything that I understand about God.

Humans try so desperately to figure out what it is that God wants us to do, and in the process, we tend to create checklists that inevitably wind up excluding people who don't match up with the checklist. I would much rather welcome too many people into God's House than have even one turned away.

JMO :hi:


edit to add: and I humbly apologize if I offended anyone with what I wrote. Just as others have shared their understanding of what God wants from them, I did the same. We are just humans, and we all "see through a glass darkly." We try to comprehend the Incomprehensible, and in the end, it is grace that brings us back home, via whatever path.

That is very well written and summarizes my feelings exactly! I have written down the word 'Legalism' and plan to do additional research this weekend. I have never heard the term before. Thanks much!!!

 

[GreveHaller]

After centuries of Judea being captured and trampled through by invading armies and Jews being exiled here, there, and elsewhere, there was a lot of confusion and contradiction about what God wanted His people to do. So of course, lots of different groups arose, all of whom had different rules that they thought everyone should follow in order to please God. (See all the references to the Pharisees and the Sadducees in the NT.) And as tends to happen among humans, the arguing between all the groups polarized them, and they all became more and more obsessed with their rules, and more and more insistent that only their set of rules must be followed to be correct. (That is legalism.)

Christ's argument with all these different religious authorities was that in their obsession with who had the correct set of rules to follow, they had all lost sight of what God actually wanted people to do: do justice, love kindness, walk humbly with their God; love God with all their hearts, their souls, their strength, and their minds; and love their neighbors as themselves. It wasn't about whether they were supposed to sacrifice a goat versus a sheep, or not rescue a wounded animal on the Sabbath, or use Welch's grape juice vs wine, or (please forgive me) use instruments in worship.

It was about understanding God's love and forgiveness, accepting it in their own lives, and then turning around and sharing that same love and forgiveness with everyone around them. (That's the Beatitudes, and the parable of the Good Samaritan, and all.)

When the customs and teachings of a given denomination help people get closer to God, then IMO they are wonderful. Some people can feel closer to God when incense is used, whereas it just makes me sneeze. But when the teachings cause people to feel excluded and rejected, then (again IMO) they are contrary to God's desire for all humanity to be reconciled to Him.

I am a musician. I sing in a choir, and the music lifts and inspires me, and instruments added to voices make my spirit soar. I've also sung a cappella, and I love it as well, and find it equally inspiring. I don't think that anyone MUST have instruments as part of worship, but I genuinely cannot fathom a loving God, the Creator of the universe, who would say "Nope" to someone who attended a church with a piano or organ or guitar or anything else. That seems completely contrary to everything that I understand about God.

Humans try so desperately to figure out what it is that God wants us to do, and in the process, we tend to create checklists that inevitably wind up excluding people who don't match up with the checklist. I would much rather welcome too many people into God's House than have even one turned away.

JMO :hi:


edit to add: and I humbly apologize if I offended anyone with what I wrote. Just as others have shared their understanding of what God wants from them, I did the same. We are just humans, and we all "see through a glass darkly." We try to comprehend the Incomprehensible, and in the end, it is grace that brings us back home, via whatever path.

Like JH, I too agree with the gest of of what you say. I imagine also that when we get up to the gates, God might tell us "you guys were fussin about nothing. I like everything you did." But again, this is only a guess. We dont know what he likes and what he doesnt like since we cant get feedback. We can only go on what he said.

Not sure if you read my post a few pages back but I too am a musician. Not professional, just do it as a hobby and for fun. I enjoy playing and many of the other musicians I know play in groups on Sundays. I am actually jealous of them because it combines a praise of God with a fun hobby that He gave us. I would thoroughly enjoy draggin my horn to church every Sunday. But I wont. "I genuinely cannot fathom a loving God, the Creator of the universe, who would say "Nope" to someone who attended a church with a piano or organ or guitar or anything else". Key word there is "I". Its not you nor me that makes the rules. Its God. I cannot fathom a loving God that would allow a child molester, Hitler, or a serial killer into heaven. But he might. That's his call, not ours. All we can do is try to follow what he says. IMO, the instrument part is such a grey area that the risk (disobeying him and it possibly being condemming) isnt worth the reward (getting into heaven). If I chose to use the instrument I have a 50-50 shot of him aproving of my worship to him. If I dont, I have eliminate my risk. I'm covered more by not doing it than doing it.

I've said it before I hope you are right. I hope that when we're there before him he loves how all of us have praised him with song. I hope I'm standing next to you in line and I get to pat you on the back and tell you "yep, you were correct". For me, I'm just not going to risk it.

Oh, and in no way have you offended me. Frank and open discussion without slinging attitudes only strengthens everyone's faith. Unlike many of the threads in the football area, everyone here has been open and complementary of each other accepting other views whether they agree or not.

 

[Jax_Vol]

Like JH, I too agree with the gest of of what you say. I imagine also that when we get up to the gates, God might tell us "you guys were fussin about nothing. I like everything you did." But again, this is only a guess. We dont know what he likes and what he doesnt like since we cant get feedback. We can only go on what he said.

Not sure if you read my post a few pages back but I too am a musician. Not professional, just do it as a hobby and for fun. I enjoy playing and many of the other musicians I know play in groups on Sundays. I am actually jealous of them because it combines a praise of God with a fun hobby that He gave us. I would thoroughly enjoy draggin my horn to church every Sunday. But I wont. "I genuinely cannot fathom a loving God, the Creator of the universe, who would say "Nope" to someone who attended a church with a piano or organ or guitar or anything else". Key word there is "I". Its not you nor me that makes the rules. Its God. I cannot fathom a loving God that would allow a child molester, Hitler, or a serial killer into heaven. But he might. That's his call, not ours. All we can do is try to follow what he says. IMO, the instrument part is such a grey area that the risk (disobeying him and it possibly being condemming) isnt worth the reward (getting into heaven). If I chose to use the instrument I have a 50-50 shot of him aproving of my worship to him. If I dont, I have eliminate my risk. I'm covered more by not doing it than doing it.

I've said it before I hope you are right. I hope that when we're there before him he loves how all of us have praised him with song. I hope I'm standing next to you in line and I get to pat you on the back and tell you "yep, you were correct". For me, I'm just not going to risk it.

Oh, and in no way have you offended me. Frank and open discussion without slinging attitudes only strengthens everyone's faith. Unlike many of the threads in the football area, everyone here has been open and complementary of each other accepting other views whether they agree or not.

That is very well stated as well.

I think you understand, but I didn't write that long part. I am not a musician. Therefore, that is why I struggle with whether the instrument is an aid to the singing or not. But I do not feel that you have to have instruments in the church to worship God. If you choose not to have them, that is fine by me. Or if you choose to have them, that is also fine by me.

If you choose to handle snakes to worship God, I think that is also fine by me. But that one makes me a little more uncomfortable and I really have not researched it.

Silly question here, but do the Amish and Mennonites and those type groups forgo the PA systems / powerpoint presentations because those things are not mentioned in the bible as being acceptable?

 

[VolNExile]

...Silly question here, but do the Amish and Mennonites and those type groups forgo the PA systems / powerpoint presentations because those things are not mentioned in the bible as being acceptable?

I'm not really up on these modern descendants of the Anabaptist groups of the 16th century, but my understanding is that much of what drives these choices is a rejection of what is considered frivolous worldly gadgetry, and a desire for simplicity. It's different from the Restoration/ Campbellite desire to return to the original first-century Church.

And for all you CofC'ers, I'm Disciples of Christ. Holler at me all you like, but we do share a common heritage, including baptism by immersion, no creeds, and weekly Communion, which I dearly miss. (No DOC churches in my neck of the woods now, so I hang wit' da Methodists these days. My grape juice and bread is limited to first Sundays of the months. :hmm

 

[GreveHaller]

I'm not really up on these modern descendants of the Anabaptist groups of the 16th century, but my understanding is that much of what drives these choices is a rejection of what is considered frivolous worldly gadgetry, and a desire for simplicity. It's different from the Restoration/ Campbellite desire to return to the original first-century Church.

And for all you CofC'ers, I'm Disciples of Christ. Holler at me all you like, but we do share a common heritage, including baptism by immersion, no creeds, and weekly Communion, which I dearly miss. (No DOC churches in my neck of the woods now, so I hang wit' da Methodists these days. My grape juice and bread is limited to first Sundays of the months. :hmm

no hollerin here so please dont take it that way.

From what little I know of DOC, I know that DOC and COC split in the early part of last century and some of it was over the instrument part. DOC stance was that it wasnt specifically forbidden in the text so its ok while the COC is it isnt commanded to do so therefore its forbidden. After that they seem to be very similar. Question for you - why Methodist? If you're missing your DOC church it seems strange to go all the way to Catholic-lite. I'd guess Sou Baptist would be closer.

 

[Jax_Vol]

I have never attended a Baptist church. Do they have weekly communion? Music? What is the difference between a southern Baptist and a C of C?

Seriously.....

Not the "The Baptist will speak to you in the liquor store" joke

 

[ChiefVOL]

I have never attended a Baptist church. Do they have weekly communion? Music? What is the difference between a southern Baptist and a C of C?

Seriously.....

Not the "The Baptist will speak to you in the liquor store" joke

Lord I hate I missed most of this thread. JH, I had no idea your roots are C of C - mine as well, although I now attend Methodist. Paul Harvey has a great audio on youtube entitled " A letter from God " I believe an earlier post was correct in that God laughs at our debates about idiosyncracies in Churchs.

 

[VolNExile]

no hollerin here so please dont take it that way.

From what little I know of DOC, I know that DOC and COC split in the early part of last century and some of it was over the instrument part. DOC stance was that it wasnt specifically forbidden in the text so its ok while the COC is it isnt commanded to do so therefore its forbidden. After that they seem to be very similar. Question for you - why Methodist? If you're missing your DOC church it seems strange to go all the way to Catholic-lite. I'd guess Sou Baptist would be closer.

Along with the instrumental music part, I saw something interesting that said that the common church had tendencies toward both Restoration (wishing to restore the first-century church) and ecumenism (wishing for unity among all Christians.) Those more drawn to Restoration became COC; those more drawn toward ecumenism became DOC. Over-simplified of course, but there's probably something to it.

My tiny Methodist church is definitely not Catholic-lite. Out here, Hippie-Methodist is probably more accurate. I always said that if I could ever find a church service where we sang, passed the plate, sang, shared Communion, sang, did the scripture readings, had a quick sermon, and sang some more, I'd be home. Except for the weekly Communion part, I've pretty well found it. And as a group, I've always found Methodists to be very low-drama, practical, roll-up-your-sleeves-and-be-useful, live-your-faith folks, which I like. Lots of quiet but useful work in our community, which sadly and sorely needs all the help it can get.

Oh well, off to work, tra-la. If you hear of a federal worker going postal today and flinging her computer out the window, that will be me. :banghead2:

(or epper:, as the case may be)

 

[Jax_Vol]

Lord I hate I missed most of this thread. JH, I had no idea your roots are C of C - mine as well, although I now attend Methodist. Paul Harvey has a great audio on youtube entitled " A letter from God " I believe an earlier post was correct in that God laughs at our debates about idiosyncracies in Churchs.

Yes, I think that also Chief. I tolerate my families C of C beliefs. But over the years, I have really had to work hard on them not to judge the others. I am Presbyterian. I firmly believe that heaven will consist of members of all denominations. I will check out the Paul Harvey audio.

If you will track down AJersey__ in one of the threads. He can make your wrestling tights orange for you. He is good at the photoshop stuff.

 

[ChiefVOL]

Yes, I think that also Chief. I tolerate my families C of C beliefs. But over the years, I have really had to work hard on them not to judge the others. I am Presbyterian. I firmly believe that heaven will consist of members of all denominations. I will check out the Paul Harvey audio.

If you will track down AJersey__ in one of the threads. He can make your wrestling tights orange for you. He is good at the photoshop stuff.

Thanks, I'll find him. Agreed,there WILL be members of all demoninations - except those who are Bama fans! Go VOLS BEAT BAMA