list of GOP cuts.

#76
#76
BeecherVol said:
Short of you finding data where music has bolstered their ability as a DR. its basically irrelevant to the issue.
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I'm not even arguing this point. I actually don't care if there is a 1:1 correlation between the neurosurgeons and musical exposure. If that is what we feel is most important, no wonder we have lost our way.
 
#77
#77
MG1968 said:
homo economicus??

now you're just making crap up (I know, newsflash!!)
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LOL.

Homo economicus I believe was coined by Milton Friedman.... It is used to descibe the "ideal economic unit" (read: human being) who is always making rational choices with her money maximizing her happiness.

Homo economicus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A quick look and Wiki says it was not coined by Milty. I defer to Wiki.

I note Amartya Sen has some criticisms of Homo economicus we would do well to heed. We would all do well to read Sen's "Hunger and Public Action."
 
#78
#78
utvolpj said:
no one is saying there aren't useless classes but you have to start cutting somewhere right?
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They've been cutting in that area for years. How about cutting based on performance? From what I've seen, band directors are some of the hardest working people in the school building and all they get in return is less and less help every year. I see few people more concerned for the success of their students than band directors. How about we cut loose the coaches who not only don't teach the class they are assigned to, but allow their 2-8 football team to walk around acting like they own the school. How about we stop buying vending machines? When I was in school they were only accessible during certain parts of the day, usually class hours when you couldn't just wander out to them anyway. I imagine it costs more to supply and stock the machines than what they are getting out of them. No need to cut away a program where kids can emphasize and grow their talents. Not everyone is going to be an athlete. Not everyone is going to be a master scientist, writer, mathematician etc. Where in the hell do you think the Pride of the Southland gets its members from? They don't just wander onto campus. No high school band programs=no college band programs=nobody left to play rocky top. I know that last sentence is over on the extreme end of the spectrum, but I figure I would go ahead and lay it out there since I'm getting tired of talking in circles.
 
#79
#79
my original point stands, my federal tax dollars shouldn't be used to fund HS band programs in Altoona, PA. It has nothing to do with the dedication of the teachers nor the desire of the students to learn and get better. Congress has 18 Constitutionally enumerated powers that it has the power to lay and collect taxes for and band camp isn't one of them.
 
#80
#80
How about lets just cut all after school activities, including sports. Really, why do we even have public schools? You guys hate socialism yet I'm sure most of you (me included) went to public schools. If you can't afford education then though ****. Shame it's got to this point that we are going to have to go to extreme measures to just keep the country from collapsing.
 
#81
#81
DynamiteMcGhee said:
How about we stop buying vending machines?...I imagine it costs more to supply and stock the machines than what they are getting out of them.
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Go to your local Sams Club and tell me that a school selling a 12oz bottle of Pepsi at $1+ is taking a loss. I know at my school vending machines were a cash cow that funded nonessential crap like the band.
 
#83
#83
MG1968 said:
my original point stands, my federal tax dollars shouldn't be used to fund HS band programs in Altoona, PA. It has nothing to do with the dedication of the teachers nor the desire of the students to learn and get better. Congress has 18 Constitutionally enumerated powers that it has the power to lay and collect taxes for and band camp isn't one of them.
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Why not? I'd much rather see tax dollars go towards people who actually care and students who actually perform, regardless of academic department. Why would you reward mediocre to awful teaching?
 
#84
#84
DynamiteMcGhee said:
They've been cutting in that area for years. How about cutting based on performance? From what I've seen, band directors are some of the hardest working people in the school building and all they get in return is less and less help every year. I see few people more concerned for the success of their students than band directors. How about we cut loose the coaches who not only don't teach the class they are assigned to, but allow their 2-8 football team to walk around acting like they own the school. How about we stop buying vending machines? When I was in school they were only accessible during certain parts of the day, usually class hours when you couldn't just wander out to them anyway. I imagine it costs more to supply and stock the machines than what they are getting out of them. No need to cut away a program where kids can emphasize and grow their talents. Not everyone is going to be an athlete. Not everyone is going to be a master scientist, writer, mathematician etc. Where in the hell do you think the Pride of the Southland gets its members from? They don't just wander onto campus. No high school band programs=no college band programs=nobody left to play rocky top. I know that last sentence is over on the extreme end of the spectrum, but I figure I would go ahead and lay it out there since I'm getting tired of talking in circles.
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you really come off pretty bitter with this post
 
#85
#85
DynamiteMcGhee said:
Why not? I'd much rather see tax dollars go towards people who actually care and students who actually perform, regardless of academic department. Why would you reward mediocre to awful teaching?
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Wouldn't reward either, but funding the band should be no different than funding the cycling club.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#86
#86
lumberjack4 said:
Go to your local Sams Club and tell me that a school selling a 12oz bottle of Pepsi at $1+ is taking a loss. I know at my school vending machines were a cash cow that funded nonessential crap like the band.
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I bet it also funded the "nonessential crap" you did. If you played a sport, it was "nonessential crap". Seeing as how it contributed nothing to your high school education.
 
#87
#87
utvolpj said:
you really come off pretty bitter with this post
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This is why I usually spectate and never contribute in the politics forum. I knew that possibly once I would put myself in a situation where I would get way too worked up, and I have done exactly that. It's just that this went from a debate to talking in circles where I feel I'm trying to make the same point over and over again with different wording each time.
 
#88
#88
DynamiteMcGhee said:
Why not? I'd much rather see tax dollars go towards people who actually care and students who actually perform, regardless of academic department. Why would you reward mediocre to awful teaching?
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what about FEDERAL TAX DOLLARS are you having problems with? I have ZERO problem with my local taxes being used to fund music education/band classes at my local schools. However, I don't expect, nor do I want, your federal taxes being used for my kid's band camp and I would hope that feeling is mutual.
 
#89
#89
MG1968 said:
what about FEDERAL TAX DOLLARS are you having problems with? I have ZERO problem with my local taxes being used to fund music education/band classes at my local schools. However, I don't expect, nor do I want, your federal taxes being used for my kid's band camp and I would hope that feeling is mutual.
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I think we got sidetracked. You local tax dollars would be used to fund your local schools. The federal dollars are going towards the NEA, which isn't school band initiative. I just mentioned that perhaps band/theater/choral students would benefit from NEA promoted events, whether they be in person or viewed through other means. Maybe I unintentionally flew off the handle, which ultimately directed the thread away from it's original intent and for that I apologize.
 
#90
#90
most artists and musicians I have come across that needed funding from the NEA weren't very good to begin with
 
#91
#91
utgibbs said:
I haven't looked at the numbers in a couple of years, but I feel confident if we cut our budget in half we would still double the spending of our nearest rival.

And I'd be right.

List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I doubt the figure even includes our War Budget.

I would never be like Donald Rumsfeld, and walk into the Pentagon and declare the American military the new "enemy" (as he did just before 9/11), and I would never "go private" with the military (as we have). We need a smaller, leaner, and more capable force. Cutting the budget would immediately incentivize to make the fighting force - the pointy end of the spear - more effective.

Unless, of course, what you really need is just bodies for occupation rotations in foreign countries....
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Only a total idiot would use total expenditures in attempting to make a point in this discussion. First of all we maintain troops and facilities in many, if not most of the countries listed for security support. This means they don't have to spend as much money for their own defense (hope I didn't lose you there). Secondly, a much more revealing number is the % of GDP used for defense. You will find that we are not leading the pack in that category.

As an aside, in what branch of the service did you serve?
 
#92
#92
Was in various bands all 4 years of HS in rural Tennessee. We didn't receive any federal funding, that I know of. I know we did from the local school board, and we did from the state, but then there was a lot of fund raising and private donations.

So are we talking about isolated private endowments for certain inner cities, or what?

Truly asking here.
 
#93
#93
KentheOrange said:
Secondly, a much more revealing number is the % of GDP used for defense. You will find that we are not leading the pack in that category.
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I just looked it up and we are actually more than double that of #2 China, as % of GDP.


Just sayin'.
 
#94
#94
IPorange said:
I just looked it up and we are actually more than double that of #2 China, as % of GDP.

Just sayin'.
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Not exactly. China is number 2 in spending, and we double their % GDP, but there are many more countries who have a much higher %GDP spent on the military.

Israel, for example, is like 7% of their GDP, whereas we are only 4.2 or whatever.
 
#95
#95
fl0at said:
Not exactly. China is number 2 in spending, and we double their % GDP, but there are many more countries who have a much higher %GDP spent on the military.

Israel, for example, is like 7% of their GDP, whereas we are only 4.2 or whatever.
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Ah, I see. I think I misunderstood the post, then. I thought he was saying the US spending was a lower GDP % than the other big spenders as far as total. Now I see he was comparing apples to oranges.
 
#96
#96
IPorange said:
Ah, I see. I think I misunderstood the post, then. I thought he was saying the US spending was a lower GDP % than the other big spenders as far as total. Now I see he was comparing apples to oranges.
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Yea, he was just trying to make a point that we don't spend the most percent of our budget. But we don't have to, our 4.3% is still HUGELY more than anyone else.

So yea, apples to oranges, and not really relevant.
 
#97
#97
DynamiteMcGhee said:
I bet it also funded the "nonessential crap" you did. If you played a sport, it was "nonessential crap". Seeing as how it contributed nothing to your high school education.
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True, me playing football in highschool didn't contribute in the least to my education. Our football team wasn't very good, yet we still brought more money into the school than we were given. If we didn't we would have been like other schools in the area who axed various sports programs that were a drain financially on the school.
 
#98
#98
IPorange said:
Ah, I see. I think I misunderstood the post, then. I thought he was saying the US spending was a lower GDP % than the other big spenders as far as total. Now I see he was comparing apples to oranges.
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Try reading the post again. I also said that we maintain troops and facilities in many of those countries which would reduce their military expenditures. If we brought all those troops home and quit being the worlds cop how much would our expenditures drop.
 
#99
#99
KentheOrange said:
Try reading the post again. I also said that we maintain troops and facilities in many of those countries which would reduce their military expenditures. If we brought all those troops home and quit being the worlds cop how much would our expenditures drop.
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A lot, probably. But we aren't going to do that and we aren't being compensated for the savings we are providing to other nations, so...

I'm not arguing anything, here. I'm just saying it's silly to pretend like we (the US) don't spend a hella lot of money on defense.
 
#100
#100
MG1968 said:
my original point stands, my federal tax dollars shouldn't be used to fund HS band programs in Altoona, PA. It has nothing to do with the dedication of the teachers nor the desire of the students to learn and get better. Congress has 18 Constitutionally enumerated powers that it has the power to lay and collect taxes for and band camp isn't one of them.
Click to expand...

I find it deeply ironic that we are having this discussion on a website about a socialist driven enterprise - college football.

I'm not sure those 18 Constitutionally enumerated powers had "college football" on them either.
 
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