Look... we needed Gruden

#276
#276
Eddie Vol Halen said:
Volnation, I really like Butch Jones. Dooley turned me off almost as soon as he arrived on campus. While the majority of you were praising "Showergate," and "Looking for Rommel" and "pick up the phone and call me" I was telling you that Dooley was auditioning for a TV gig as our head coach. And I didn't like it. And that's exactly what he did.

Butch was always behind the 8-ball. He actually walked into a worse situation than Dooley (which is saying something in a big way). He almost created his next problem. He did what he had to do - he went after elite talent. Problem is, he didn't land the elite talent. I've said for awhile this 2013 class would define his tenure. He swung for the fences (which makes me like him), but he didn't connect. Strike.

Daj is absolutely right - it starts with talent. That's why we needed Gruden so bad, and the CryptKeeper and Booger dropped the ball. I said at the time Hart still had the power to screw the pooch. He did. Ego. BMOC. Hart couldn't handle Gruden being Big Man on Campus. And it will haunt us for a decade.

CBJ still has a chance. He has to lean on our offensive line. He has to restore confidence to the defense. He has to go +2 in the talent column, and that is his record. I fear though he was +2 in the Big East, but the SEC is the best of best. Second tier these days is Steve Spurrier. Let that sink in. Even Muschamp is proving he is worthy of the league. Franklin has the nation talking about Vandy --- VANDY!

Folks, we needed Gruden. It wasn't a pipe dream, but we had to roll out the red carpet, absolutely. The CryptKeeper failed. We've got to hope Coach Butch Jones is +2. I want him to be +2. He's still got a chance, but he's got to take some big scalps 2013.
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This is a typical thread started NOT for any congent content but rather to see how many posts can be spurred on by an idiotic comment!! GT! :salute:
 
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#277
#277
I'm sure a few of you have ex girlfriends who have filed restraining orders te way some of you have taken being rejected by gruden. He never wanted to be here, not once and your so convinced ding dong hart screwed it up? Get over it
 
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#278
#278
Every time I remember that that sack of crap Jon Gruden isn't the head coach at the University of Tennessee, I hear the "Hallelujah Chorus". Thank you, Flying Spaghetti Monster, and bless your noodly appendage. Ra-men.
 
#281
#281
sjt18 said:
Moot point since it appears that Gruden had no desire to coach anywhere including UT.

Yes. He could have hired guys with recruiting reputations. Like his name... that gets him started. It doesn't sustain the effort. And THAT... almost always comes down to the drive of the HC.

It would be a mistake to underestimate Fulmer's talent as a recruiting HC during his prime.

That... is a stretch.

You hope not... but the HC sure better know how to recruit. There's no evidence that Gruden does.

Look. I have been saying in different ways here that there are no mulligans in CFB recruiting. He needed players he didn't get in this class to improve his chances of survival. But it is worse than ridiculous to judge his ability to close based on this one class.

I don't like it or even want to believe it but Bell said that he chose OSU because they were closer to playing for championships. Jones didn't turn other players. There weren't many uncommitted guys he wanted that he actually "lost". Greene is notable but so is North. I really like Dobbs and believe him to be underrated.

All that said, he needs to recruit hard AND win some games this fall to prove he is the guy to bring UT back. Many argue with it and one guy even said it was idiotic but Jones needs to win 8 possibly including a bowl. Eight wins says "I was able to coach against the best and beat ------ with a weaker roster". Anything less leaves big question marks.

I know it isn't necessarily "reasonable" to expect him to win 8... I'm saying he NEEDS it to get going without regard to the difficulty.
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I agree with all of this.

Jones struck out on 6 out of 8 documented recruiting targets down the stretch. I am judging this particular class but not passing judgement on his overall recruiting ability.

We end up with 2 star volleyball players and not a single player with an offer from Alabama or the other big boys of the SEC on defense again next season, I think it will be time to worry.

As you said as well, arguing Gruden at this point is pointless.

I find it borderline hilarious that this particular thread is getting so many impassioned responses for and against a guy that isn't even here.

I think it says something about the apprehension over Jones that there is still so much gnashing of teeth over a guy we missed.

Jones is my guy since he is the head football coach now. I never cared one way or the other on Gruden. I think the whole phenomenon was pretty hysterical at times though.

I am overall satisfied with the coach speak he has been throwing out to this point and the feedback from his efforts. He has to win games on the field and do much better in recruiting for any of it to actually mean anything though.
 
#282
#282
sjt18 said:
FWIW, your HC is your closer or else you don't have one. Assistants are almost always transient. If they are the "closer" then someone will offer them a promotion. Kids commit to the HC, not the assistants. They know those guys move.
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Tell this to Reeves-Maybin, Harris, Ferguson, and North.

All those kids committed or visited under Dooley.

It can't be overstated IMO how important it was to keep Graham on staff.
 
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#283
#283
I've ignored this thread thinking it would not be worth the read, but after a few days of remaining on the front page and seeing a lot of activity... decided it might be worth a gander.

I was wrong. Please let this die.
 
#286
#286
patrick said:
Just wanted to point out that Dooley's first class was a top-10 class and he had less time to recruit than CBJ.
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Didn't Dooley basically keep Kiffin's class together and add Darick and a couple other players to it? The difference Dooley's recruiting got worse after his first class CBJ will get better after his first class IMO.
 
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#287
#287
VOL6479 said:
Didn't Dooley basically keep Kiffin's class together and add Darick and a couple other players to it? The difference Dooley's recruiting got worse after his first class CBJ will get better after his first class IMO.
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Very good point. I hope he gets better.

Dooley had an aversion to recruiting. The way he neglected his responsibilities (a contractual obligation) should be grounds for UT being released from paying the buyout.
 
#289
#289
PKT_VOL said:
I stopped right there. You are have not a clue what you are talking about.
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I am surprised as anyone. I would never, ever have believed a coach could walk into a worse situation than post-Kiffin. Hambone was still AD at the time too.

Yet, I don't rate Hart much higher than Hambone. Also, Butch is walking into the worst run of Tennessee football in over a century. Finally, Doolander flat out quit after the KY-debacle and was shambolic at organization - his supposed strong suit. Our three most talented players - juniors - are leaving too. So, I think that is equivalent to the Kiffin "Worst Class Ever" bust.

Taken as a whole then, CBJ has walked into a worse situation.
 
#290
#290
Eddie Vol Halen said:
I am surprised as anyone. I would never, ever have believed a coach could walk into a worse situation than post-Kiffin. Hambone was still AD at the time too.

Yet, I don't rate Hart much higher than Hambone. Also, Butch is walking into the worst run of Tennessee football in over a century. Finally, Doolander flat out quit after the KY-debacle and was shambolic at organization - his supposed strong suit. Our three most talented players - juniors - are leaving too. So, I think that is equivalent to the Kiffin "Worst Class Ever" bust.

Taken as a whole then, CBJ has walked into a worse situation.
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FWIW, I appreciate what you are doing in this thread. It's refreshing.
 
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#293
#293
JayVols said:
FWIW, I appreciate what you are doing in this thread. It's refreshing.
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Thanks. I'm not sure why it was exiled to the Sports Forum. When you wade through the a priori dismissals of Gruden (and even a lot of those were funny - I gave a fair share of Likes to those that gave me a laugh), it is a great discussion for the off-season given CBJ really didn't make a big splash with his first recruiting class, and most new coaches do.

I think the point on this last page is a good one though - I do believe CBJ has more potential to improve recruiting than Doolander, and I hope he proves it.....

SOON!
 
#294
#294
I moved it because the first few pages were just trashing the original thought and it's time we gave up on the Gruden dream. Move on. If you want to start a relevant thread about CBJ and the recruiting that's fine. If you want to talk about Gruden, who has nothing to do with current UT football, it's going in here.
 
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